I NEED SOME HELP IN UNDERSTANDING GERMANS.

I need some help in understanding the above. Me head is short of a full load of sawdust.

Go to Germany. Tell people, "I'm here for help in understanding Germans."

It will be an excellent opportunity to determine whether there is a native sense of humor. If there isn't, they should be helpful.

I once read the war memoirs of the man who ended the war as number three on the list of RAF fighter aces . . . had he not been shot down, he might have lead the list. He recounted how his engine had been put out of commission in a dog-fight in which he had nonetheless managed to shoot down his opponent. This was over northern France, and he hoped he could coast to the Channel, where he could hope to be picked up. When it became clear to him that he wouldn't make it, he bagan to look for a field to put down in. He had found one, but as he got closer, he realized that there was a mobile FLAK unit there, and he had insufficient speed to pull up his nose and maneoevre. The cannon rounds were coming closer and closer, so, having no choice as he saw it, he returned fire with his cannon (he was at that time flying a Hawker Typhoon with a 30 mm cannon in the nose). Finally, he "pancaked" into the field, made soft by recently having been plowed, and survived the crash.

German infantry ran up and made him prisoner. They dragged him out of the cockpit, pushed him to the ground several times, moved him forward by frequently slapping him on the back of the head, and marched him over to the the FLAK truck. There, one of the four cannon barrels was split open with the metal curled back like the petals of a flower. He had put a cannon round directly down the barrel of the gun, and the resulting explosion had killed the gun crew, who were still sitting dead, strapped in their seats.

He was pretty sure he was a goner at this point, when the Germans burst into loud guffaws, telling him, more or less, "Oh you should have seen your face . . . i bet you thought you were a dead man now, huh ! ! !" He said they laughed uproariously for quite some time, and the German officer who was translating for him had some difficulty, because he was laughing himself. Then they grew very serious, and congratulated him on his good shooting, saying how impressed they were with how he had pulled it off while gliding in a heavy aircraft with no power . . .

This anecdote has always been for me, the epitome of German humor . . . crude, cruel, and basically dull-witted . . .

germans are pretty much the same as frenchmen, dutchmen and swedes, just with an oddity here and there.

within germany, differences between people will be bigger (both from person to person and from region to region) than between any of them and a random belgian or czech. i.e., a bavarian will be more like an austrian than like someone from schleswig-holstein, who'll be more like a dane than ... etc.

same as anywhere else, i'd venture.

you'll have little luck "understanding germans" if you try to do it by defining "what germans are like". best you're likely to end up with is a plethora of stereotypes. see your first post.

there, i went on thread with it this time.

"understanding germany" (instead of "germans") would at least conceptually be more valid a question, though you'd still have to be more specific for me to be "able 2 know" anything ...

I might suggest taking a trip to Alsace and asking them about their German roots and heritage.

I do not understand your interpretation of this. I was fully expecting you to say "Appreciative of technical competence, accurate, principled, disciplined yet with human amusement. Without vengeance."

An American would have "liberated" the pilots soul,
and then demanded some kind of fee for the service.

Setanta


re humour:
Not a real anecdote, published (by local historians) and re-told by a well-respected man - at least for me, since it has been my father:

two days after my parent's marriage, my hometown became the very most eastern point of the "Ruhr-Kessel".
My father did a hell of a job, painting red crosses on the hospital and home for metally ill and trying to make a the surrender of that small town able without too many deaths or wounded.
He did so, because he thaught to be the only officer there - he was a a doctor in the medical corps with non-conbattant-status.

The Americans shot three times at him, wounding him just slightly.

He was taken POW and carried about a week around here (there were still some minor fightings going on).

Then, a group of about a dozen, all of non-conbattant-status, POW's were taken to the small village of Ahden. Each got a spade, they had to dig a whole of the seize of a grave, knee in front of it and then six maschine-guns were installed.
They were asked to do a last praying, the shooting command went behind the guns ... and then all Americans were laughing.

My father never went to this village in his life, even when he was acting as that county's medical officer later.

I do think, Germans have humour as well, certainly different to other's nationalty ones.

I do not think that you'll find a 'general line' to characterize 'the Germans' - besides in football, where we have really a rotten team.

I'm following this thread with quite some interest - perhaps it will help me as well.

I believe that Germans are exactly just like Latvians except only, you know ... German.

I like Germany and the Germans. Unusual for a Brit, but then I've spent several months of my life there and speak the language.

Forget national stereotypes for looks - yes, Claudia Schiffer is typically German, but very few Germans look like her!

I'll give two views for now. One comes from a programme I saw recently on the 50 years of formal, peaceful engagement between Germany and France. Various people from each country, often living in the other, were asked to give their views. The one which stuck with me was:

Germans sit in bars and grumble (quatchen) about the state of the world, how the environment is in a terrible way, the prices are going up, etc....so the bars are full of long faces, talking about the serious matters of life.

The French sit in cafes and shrug their shoulders at the state of the world. They all know it's in a terrible state, so why not party tonight as if we'll all die tomorrow...have fun at all costs!

OK - it's an extreme dichotomy, not true across the board, but it does give an impression of the difference in attitude. We Brits, of course, like to see the irony in everything and therefore generate our own black humour in such situations!

My other observation is based on something I picked up from a (tiny) introduction to Wittgenstein, who claimed that languages influence the way in which we think. German is a very structured language, which requires the whole sentence to be planned before it is delivered. This can lead to writing which is very difficult to understand without concentration (for a non-native), e.g. putting a whole qualifying phrase before the noun which it qualifies. This is a rather archaeic or formal way of writing, but it comes as no surprise to me that there have been so many philosophers, psychologists and sociologists with German as their mother tongue. The language lends itself to rational, philosophical discussion of ideas. Goethe said: "When words fail, ideas come in very useful".

Sure Walter, i'll give you that. Nobody has a corner on crude, cruel and dull-witted humor.

Forgive me Boss, i grew up in a small town which had a Protestant majority of largely German descent. There was a constant sniping back and forth between the Catholic and Protestant children, and our History teacher used to stand at the head of the class and proclaim in all seriousness the glory and superiority of Hitler and the Nazi regime, and the racial superiority of the Germans. Has kind of left a sour taste in my mouth over the last 50 years.

Setanta

Forgiven :wink:

I grew up in a small town (14,000 at that) as well.

I know of the rivality between Catholics and Protestants - we, however, had an even stronger to the other Catholic parish.

Well, as a German I feel I have to say something on this thread. The first thing that comes to my mind is 'No, I am not blond and blue-eyed.' (As you very well know, Mapleleaf!)

I like Kitchenpete's story about the Germans and the French. I think you are right. Germans tend to see things in a negative way.

And yes, the stores are closed most of the weekend. They just changed the law, however, and stores will be allowed to be open until 8 pm on Saturdays. So there - we are able to change.

Sense of humour? Oh come on - of course we have a sense of humour. And of course it is different - we are, after all, Germans.

Cars - yes, the cars! I drive an Italian car, BTW.

I will not go into any political or historical details. Walter can do that a lot better than me.

Really, Walter, that was unconscionable treatment of POWs.

That Swabian land I will not bear
And dresses long I shall not wear
For dresses long and pointed shoes
Are clothes a chambermaid should never choose

I do not think that national character can be reduced to language. My late father was an ethnic German that was born and died in the USSR, and he did not know the language. Neither do I. Neither him nor me have ever been in Germany. BTW, none of us was blond, but my eyes are gray-to-blue despite of the dark brown color of all the realtives from the mother's side that are Jews.
But many features of the stereotype that appeared in the postings of different members are characteristic to me. Regarding the story of the RAF pilot, I think, my response in the similar situation would be just the same (if I did not get an order to act another way, of course).

pete - great observation about the germans and french. <nods> I think, actually - that's one of the better ways to get to know the character of a country's people - by comparing it with the character of another country's (and really, I don't mean your own).

I've known a few germans, and I can say they'd be about as hard to stick in a box as the any random group of americans I know.

and I have to comment on the RAF pilot story, too - I think those guys responded like any group of "healthy" (ahem) boys would in the field, at war - even HEALTHIER than some would - of any nationality.

stasia

(there's a french thread, too? <g> I hate France.)

urs53 - in holland, most shops close at 6 every day, except saturday, when they close at 5. I miss 24-hour america sometimes.

24-hour America? Not everywhere, A. I still can't get used to this 9:00 closing (on the weekends!) for liquor stores in WA...

Anastasia, huh? So you made it outta that cellar in Yekaterinaburg alive, huh? Gosh, you sure look good for a woman more'n a hundred years old . . . what's yer secret?