1
   

Why did Mark and Engles modify their slogan?

 
 
fansy
 
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 06:11 am
Who can explain to me why the slogan "Workingmen of the World, Unite!" was changed to "Workers of the World, Unite!" by Marx and Engles? Under what circumstances did they do so? What happened to the German slogan?
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 2,654 • Replies: 7
No top replies

 
Noddy24
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 10:41 am
Common sense indicated that "Worker's of the World, Unite!" has more punch as a rallying cry that "Workingmen of the World, Unite!"

Further, women work too.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 11:38 am
Re: Why did Mark and Engles modify their slogan?
http://www.dhm.de/ausstellungen/wahlverwandtschaft/13prold.jpg

"Proletarian of all countries unite." [Marx/Engels, MEW 4, page 493, 1848]

That's became popular with the Social-Democratic movement as well as with the Communists. (The above poster is from the German Social-Democratic Party's archive.)

Flora Tristan was the first in 1843/4 to mention that working females and males of all countries should work together. Since she was personally aquainted with Marx, he surely knew about this ...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 11:41 am
Oh, and 'Proletarier' became 'Arbeiter' in everyday German in the 1920's - 'Proletarier' only used as historic term when quoting the manifest slogan.

Arbeiter (worker) in the female form is Arbeiterin - which really translates to "worker".

To come back to the original question: neither Marx nor Engels changed their slogan.

(I didn't make it clear in my above response: it's actually none of their slogans but taken from the manifest: "Mögen die herrschenden Klassen vor einer kommunistischen Revolution zittern. Die Proletarier haben nichts in ihr zu verlieren als ihre Ketten. Sie haben eine Welt zu gewinnen. Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!" - "Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win."
(And then Engles with his co-translator Moore changed in 1888 'proletarians' to "workers" in the first Englsih translation)
"Workers of all countries unite."
0 Replies
 
fansy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 07:03 pm
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 08:28 pm
Re: Academics of the world, unite, to solve academic problem
fansy wrote:
Thank you very much for your prompt reply to my question, explaining why the slogan was changed from "workingmen" to "workers". But 20 years ago, when I tried to study some synonyms, I happened to notice this modification of the slogan. I consulted the Oxford English Dictionary on Historical Principles and found out that "workingmen" at that time earned less than 10 pounds per month (if my memory serves me right, but "workers" were paid more. So it led me to think that Mark and Engels wanted to include some better educated people to join the ranks. But this is purely my guess.

Got to remember though, Fansy, that Marx and Engels wrote in German. All they wrote was, "Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!". They didnt write the translations into English themselves - the only English translation that Engels had a hand in himself was the 1888 translation by Samuel Moore, whom he advised.

That means that it wasnt Marx and Engels who changed the translation over time either. Responsibility for both previous and later translations lies wholly with the respective translators.

This, roughly, is the timeline. Marx and Engels published the Communist Manifesto in 1848 in German. A first English translation appeared in 1850 from the hand of Helen MacFarlane, in a publication called The Red Republican. At least three different further English translations appeared in 1871. In 1888 Samuel Moore translated it anew, with the co-operation of Engels himself. And further translations have appeared since.

In short, the change from "working men" to "workers" over time is a function of there having been different translators, who made different translating decisions as the English language changed and the word "working man" became antiquated.

It is not the only example, either. For example, the famous opening line of the Manifesto, "A spectre is haunting Europe - the spectre of Communism", in MacFarlane's original translation started with: "A frightful hobgoblin stalks throughout Europe." Razz

Such changes in translation can not be laid at the feet of Marx and Engels themselves. It therefore makes little sense to try to ascribe motivations to Marx and Engels regarding why they would have changed it from one to the other.

The only thing that can be said regarding the successive translations is that Engels approved, specifically, of the 1888 translation by Moore; and that translation read, in fact: "Working Men of All Countries, Unite!"

More info here:
This website actually explicitly talks about both questions:
Quote:
The famous final phrase of the Manifesto, "Working Men of All Countries, Unite!", in the original German is: "Proletarier aller Länder, vereinigt euch!" Thus, a more correct translation would be "Proletarians of all countries, Unite!"

"Workers of the World, Unite. You have nothing to lose but your chains!" is a popularisation of the last three sentences, and is not found in any official translation. Since this English translation was approved by Engels, we have kept the original intact.

And here:

0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 24 Jun, 2006 08:38 pm
Re: Academics of the world, unite, to solve academic problem
nimh wrote:
It is not the only example, either. For example, the famous opening line of the Manifesto, "A spectre is Haunting Europe - the spectre of Communism", in MacFarlane's original translation started with: "A frightful hobgoblin stalks throughout Europe."

I like this so much, in fact, I'm going to make it my sig line... Very Happy
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Jun, 2006 06:52 pm
Ah look here - who knew. This sounds like the ultimate resource on the topic of your thread, Fansy:

Quote:
Hal Draper
The Adventures of the Communist Manifesto

Center for Socialist History, 1250 Addison St. Suite 101, Berkeley, CA
94702, USA; 1994; pp. 344.
ISBN 0-916695-07-7 (pbk) $19.95.

Reviewed by Chris Arthur

February 1998 is 150 years since the publication of the most famous pamphlet in history, the Manifesto of the Communist Party. The excellent book before us, The Adventures of the Communist Manifesto by the late Hal Draper, is required reading for all those interested in its meaning and history. (It incorporates the author's earlier The Annotated Communist Manifesto.) It contains three parts.

Part One, the 'adventures' proper, has a fascinating discussion of the circumstances of the publication of the Manifesto, and a detailed history of the later editions of the nineteenth century, together with English translations to the present. In this part Draper relies heavily on Bert Andreas: Le Manifesto Communiste de Marx et Engels. Histoire et Bibliographie 1848-1918 (Milan: Feltrinelli, 1963).

Part Two contains in parallel text four versions of the Manifesto: the original German first edition; the first English translation by Helen MacFarlane, 1850 ('A frightful hobgoblin stalks throughout Europe.'); what he calls the 'Authorized English Translation' put out by Engels, 1888; and his own 'New English Version'. The parallel arrangement works splendidly for ease of reference. Draper's own translation he claims is more faithful to the first edition than is the Engels one, although he takes care to say he intends to supplement it, not replace it. The idea of 'supplementation' is followed in that Draper's alternative rendering is often merely that, not an improvement.

Part Three has extensive annotations of the above texts, for example marking differences between various German editions, drawing attention to places where Engels translated very freely, and elucidating obscure or misleading expressions in the texts. Indispensable work. To give an example of the sort of work Draper has done, let us address the question of the dating of the Manifesto. <snipped>

With regard to the English translations of the Manifesto Draper has also done some useful detective work. He believes it is possible in the 1888 translation to separate from the original literal work by Sam Moore Engels' more free-wheeling emendations. In 1928 Eden and Cedar Paul retranslated it for Martin Lawrence; Draper complains about their excessive freedom and comments that 'using this translation is risky'. [..] Draper is especially scathing about an unacknowledged revision of the 1888 translation put out in the 1930s by Lawrence & Wishart (London) and International Publishers (New York). It was distributed in hundreds of thousands of copies and came out again in 1948, this time with the revision acknowledged. [..]

In sum Draper's work is essential for students and scholars alike, albeit that new research continues to throw more light on the matters concerned.

(Unfortunately its distribution is poor, and it is probably best to write directly to the publisher whose address is given at the head here.)

That review is from here
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY, EVERYONE! - Discussion by OmSigDAVID
WIND AND WATER - Discussion by Setanta
Who ordered the construction of the Berlin Wall? - Discussion by Walter Hinteler
True version of Vlad Dracula, 15'th century - Discussion by gungasnake
ONE SMALL STEP . . . - Discussion by Setanta
History of Gun Control - Discussion by gungasnake
Where did our notion of a 'scholar' come from? - Discussion by TuringEquivalent
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Why did Mark and Engles modify their slogan?
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/01/2024 at 04:59:04