Pool Blues

I agree about not wanting to do any "intervention" at this point, might make things really weird, especially if you end up seeing these people all summer.

I'm one to be upfront about a problem, getting it out in the open, but, you've got to pick your battles.

When I mentioned about going to the pool another time, didn't want to necessarily imply avoidance, just that if this was bothering me, and it was no harder to go at one time than another, that would make it a complete non-issue.

Um, here's a couple of things that were red flags to me…..looking at it as an adult.

Now, to some people this may sound paranoid, but I call it being observant.

The man not making eye contact with you….branching away from this particular situation, here are some things I've learned….

Let's say in situation A, 95% of the time you expect a typical social interplay. I.E., man who is not parent playing with kid, normally looks over to check with parental unit if this is "ok".

In that small percentage, he doesn't do the visual check, and (a) the parent does nothing, not wanting to "make a fuss", even though they may worry. (b) the parent says something, whatever the situation warrants.

The mans response will be (a) Oh, yeah, didn't think of it that way, and takes no offense. Or (b)Stops what he's doing, but either verbally or non-verbally gives the message to the parent that "hey, what's wrong with YOU? You think I'm a pervert or something….sheesh" You know, the typical scenario of a stranger trying to "help" you with your groceries or whatever, and when you refuse, he says "I was only TRYING to help", hoping you'll have been made uncomfortable enough to allow him to help you, to prove you really are a nice person, and not some bitch.

I just find it really odd that in this day and age, a grown man would NOT seek out the approval of the parent….in fact, do you feel he was purposefully not meeting your eyes?

Not saying he's a child molester, just, I find that strange…..

Related to that….the story about their swim club costing too much….you know, 20 miles is an awful long way to drive to go to another swimming pool, don't you think? I'm just sayin'.

Soz, (and everybody really), I would recommend a book to everyone to read…..It's called "The Gift of Fear" It's all about listening to that little voice that's saying "something's not right" and how we tell that voice to be quiet.

It wasn't as if I learned anything new as far a technique in handling people, but the validation of knowing that little twinge you get means something….pay attention to it.

The worst that may happen is you slightly insult someone, small price to pay, don't you think?

I'm concerned because you are concerned, Soz. You have good instincts. I would ask the pool people to keep an eye on these folks, too. Ask them if they notice that they come to the pool often and if other parents have complained or asked about them.

I would discourage Sozlet from being so friendly to adult strangers.

I read that book when I was 22 and also recommend it. But I do also recognize that sometimes parent fear is different from the primal, instinctive fear that can save your life. Still, I think that instincts should be listened to, even if it's just to understand exactly what it is that bothers you and why. It sounds like that is happening here, and probably how the thread got started.

Perhaps these people are driving 20 miles to a swimming pool to get a little unethical mileage out of their Family Pass?

Twenty miles from home, the concept of "family" can be blurred and a group of unrelated friends can claim family pass admission.

I'm not calling you a snob, but could some of your unease be triggered by the Non-U behavior?

Teen age boys are not noted for social sensitivity--or any sort of social savvy. Soz's Sea Monsters might have seen little difference between a twelve-year-old in their group and an adoring five-year-old stranger.

Thinking back, in the pre-school years I was taking two boys to the swimming pool--and both "two" and "boy" make a difference.

I still think water changes some intimacy rules. Was there any close physical contact with these boys when they were out of the water?

It's normal for kids to mooch. Young kids are simply just straight forward and honest. They see something they want and go for it. What's the big deal - the worst thing they say no. And some one else's food always seems better. I am sure everyone experiences their child eating something over a friend, family member house that they would never touch at home.

Chai makes some good points. Although is this male person a parent? If not he may not fully understand - you need to be a parent to really understand. I had a child come up to me in a kiddie arcade and ask me for some tokens. Not my kid and I didn't know him. I looked around for his parent and didn't notice any. I basically gave him a lecture about not asking strangers for anything and the dangers. But perhaps if I wasn't a parent I would only think the kid had a lot of nerve and not about the dangers.

I have seen so many of the behaviors listed here in other children.

The mooching child- Money, food, drinks...If I don't know the child, I laugh it off, tell them they need to go and find their parent/s, and tell them they need something. Sure, there are a handful of kids I feed..or give money too, big deal. I know if the situation is reversed, they would do the same for my child. (MINE DON'T ASK!, I have brow-beat that into them from a young age)

We live on the ballfields 3/4 of the year, and we are quit aquianted with other's children, so we know which one's we can feed, and which one's we'd rather not feed, give money too, or drinks..because it then becomes a problem, everytime they see us, they equate us to food,money or drinks. I'm sorry...call me greedy or mean, but I have two children of my own to tend too, I didn't come to the ballfield to feed and hand over money to someone else's child.

The Swimming pool/LAKE-- This one is hard. I haven't had to deal with this yet...but I have had to deal with others children wanting to play with us. I tend to do the children the same way as the ball park. Laugh them off, tell them that if they want to play, they need to talk to their parents and let them play/rough house with them. They of course give me that puppy dog look, but I'm uncomfortable with the thought of some stranger doing my child that way, I don't want to do someone else's child.
9 times out of 10, the child will come back and say.."Mom said it was ok."...thats when I back out and let my kids have it. I'm not putting myself in that position.

In todays world...An Adult ought to know these signs! How could they have missed them?

I think the idea of bringing a playmate along next time is excellent, because I think this socializing is going on, on sozlet's part, because she's looking for someone(s) to be with. And since she (I assume) can't find appropriate 5-year-old buddies, she's latched onto this group, and then there's been a second time. So I'd say, toss some variables in, some other, more age-appropriate distractions, and nip this right quick. Not that these people are bad or anything, but sozlet should have playmates who are generally closer to her age, particularly as teenaged boys can roughhouse and that's not the best thing in a pool. Not saying these guys do, but others do, and it's probably best not to set up ("well, with ___ it was okay, why isn't it okay with ___?") situations.

I'm not a mommy, but when kids (family or friends) ask me for food I always check with one of the parents to make sure it's OK. You never know if a child has an allergy or is on a special diet. Otherwise I have no problem giving them a snack (I also have three dogs so I'm a sucker for a mooch face).

As someone who employees teenage boys, I can tell you they tend to have very bad judgement when it comes to safety. The play may be innocent, but young boys just don't seem to understand consequences. I also find it odd that boys that age would look to play to with such a young girl for any length of time. Most of the boys I've worked with are a little awkward around girls that age.

I too like the idea of bringing distractions in the forms of food and friends.

Good luck, not an easy situation.

Not sure how it became "teenaged boys" -- the group was a 12-year-old girl, a guy who I assumed was her dad (mid 30's?), a 4-year-old girl who I assumed was her little sister, a woman I assumed was the girls' mother (also mid-30's-ish), and then one extra guy who I thought was about college-aged but sozlet was calling a "kid". I can't imagine that he was younger than 16, but I dunno.

Sozlet actually was being actively pursued by two kids her age throughout on Saturday (we came in with one of them and this girl and sozlet were playing until the 12-yr-old reappeared; the girl then kept trying to get sozlet to play with her and another friend, but sozlet wasn't interested [that's another layer, I didn't like how brusque she was, but that's going in a whole other new direction...]) Sozlet just enjoyed playing with the girls in the family, and the rest of them were just part of that group.

Anyway, to catch up with some stuff:



The problem with that is that the little voice has been yammering nonstop about the kid since, oh, the second trimester or so. I listen to the voice re: myself, that works, but re: the kid the thing cries wolf all the damn time. (FreeDuck said this, too.) "Omigod, that person just sneezed, if I let him pick up the baby she'll get pneumonia, I just know it!" "Omigod, she's going to roll off the bed and get a concussion, I just know it!!" "Omigod, where is she, I don't see her anywhere in the yard, she's been kidnapped, I just know it!!! Oh, there she is behind the garage."

This is all internal, mind you, I do my utmost to wrestle it into the rational realm and not let it translate to actions. Sozlet was recently doing impressions of me and E.G., and when she was E.G. she said, "BE CAREFUL!" and when she was me she said, "Oh, it's fine, don't worry."

Noddy, no contact with the dad-type or cousin (as I'll call him) out of the water, no. That was mostly the 12-year-old with the 4-year-old meandering in and out, but not much conversation and no physical contact with anyone else.

Linkat, I think the dad-type was the dad to at least one of the girls -- I think the 4-year-old, and then the 12-year-old was an extended family member or neighbor or something. The line I mentioned as clicking later is when I asked the 12-year-old if she'd be there the next day (she'd just asked us if I would be) and she said no, and then added, "well those guys might be but I won't." So I think she's out of the central famiy unit, which I think is mom-type, dad-type, and 4-year-old.

These people definitely checked first before feeding sozlet, they didn't really do anything wrong there; I hate being in the position of being a meanie or encouraging mooching, even if the people volunteer and she didn't even ask, but they handled that part just fine.

We went to the pool today, they weren't there, had fun, sozlet played with two friends (people she already knows and saw at the pool). A mom I was talking to commented (in a positive way) on how fearless sozlet is, and I said, "I know" kind of ruefully, which she picked up on and added, "...though of course you want them to be safe, too..." and I said, "speaking of which, what do you think about this situation...?" She winced and echoed my general discomfort, but then her younger son started going crazy so she had to go deal with him. She's someone I know well so we can follow up later.

Anyway, I think all the pieces are in place to deal with this, I'll let you guys know what happens.

Thanks again!

bm