Pool Blues

Uggggh! My heart goes out to you. Keep that kid close to you. Ugghhh.

Isn't the Sozlet old enough for simple English-to-sign translation?

Looking back on childhood and motherhood I remember different rules of intimacy on water and on land.

I don't want her to ever be in the position of interpreter. Feel pretty strongly about that, for a lot of reasons. In an emergency, maybe. In this kind of situation, absolutely not.

I could have pressed it if I wanted to. I only really pieced things together afterwards. (I said something about the 12-year-old's "little sister," sozlet said that they weren't sisters, I realized something I'd seen them say that I hadn't nailed down fit into that, we talked a bit more -- after having left -- but I never finished figuring it out. When we were at the pool, I thought they were a family of four with an extra uncle or friend or something.)

Most of the contact was initiated by her. This has happened a lot, when she joins in the games of some other kids/ family. It's usually welcomed/ encouraged. I've been at the center of it myself (playing in the pool with sozlet and some other kid joins) and was often in that position when I was a kid. I'd forever be starting games and having a slew of kids draped over me.

It doesn't matter if you know what the reason is or not Soz....your gut is telling you something....listen to it.

Take your dtr to the pool at a totally different time, when you know they aren't there.

They are adults and most like won't give it more than a passing thought you aren't there.

Your dtr will get over it.

She'll have fun no matter what time she goes there.

I understand the dilemma between expressing caution and over-reacting. You want her to be open and friendly and at the same time you know the world isn't always what we see on the surface.

Something has triggered your gut. Can you identify what it is? Have you been able to determine if mom-type and dad-type are M&D to the 12 yo? Is it the presence of the teenage boy? Is it concern that sozlet might be too trusting (even if there's nothing wrong with this situation or this family)? Something has caused you to take notice, can you identify what it is?

Pool play - chasing, tossing, swimming between legs underwater - all take on an atmosphere of group fun without much thought to who is in the group. I'd worry if they invited her to go outside of the pool area or tried to have contact away from the pool. The youngest is 12, sozlet is 5. There's no need to encourage a friendship, but I don't see that you need to avoid the pool either - unless you can't shake whatever has you spooked. Then, by all mean, listen to your gut.

Soz,

I can understand your concerns. I don't know if I can word this..the way I want it to come out or not, so lets hope. (I think this is whats bothering you)

Its not so much as your daughter having fun at the pool with the strangers, its just the bodily contact with the men/boys that has made you uncomfortable...feeling its not proper....and not knowing how to explain to Sozlet that its inappropriate to touch other men or them to touch her... (these people ought to know this)

That hugs/kisses are left for daddy and grandpa's..uncles..

It would bother me also...

Soz, I feel for ya, this makes for an uncomfortable situation all the way around......and sometimes trying to explain this to a lil girl is even harder...makes it confusing. I wish I had some advice....

Hi all, thanks for listening and for the cogent observations.

Chai and J_B, the gut thing is a big part of what I'm trying to figure out. As in, it's definitely telling me "danger!", but do I listen to it? I tend towards paranoid when it comes to the kid, not in terms of my actions, but in terms of what goes on in my head that I talk myself down from. I'm often thinking of worst-case scenarios, then convince myself that I'm being silly.

So, I wasn't quite able to convince myself that I'm being silly, but I don't yet know if that really means anything. Does it mean I'm not being silly, or does it just mean I haven't convinced myself yet?

J_B, your questions are good, that helps focus. You too, MMS.

I think I probably would have been more comfortable if the people involved were women, yes, but that's where I start second-guessing myself. It's the kind of stereotyping I dislike -- women commit crimes, too, and anyway they're right there in front of me, what's going to happen?

I think it's likely that the center of it is in terms of potentiality -- that sozlet got to this point with them so quickly does make me worry about other circumstances where I might not be there, or might not be watching at the moment. And then the trick becomes, how do I communicate that to her? What, exactly, do I tell her to do or not do?

I have been fostering independence and a sense of boundaries in her, and she has shown that she's willing to stand up for herself and not do what she's not comfortable with -- she's not a peer pressure (or any other pressure) kinda gal. So, this made ME uncomfortable, so I guess I wanted her to be uncomfortable, but she wasn't, and it's not like anything happened, and I don't think I actually think anything WOULD happen with these people, so her own instincts might be just fine here...

<bluhbluhbluh>

One part of it that made me uncomfortable that I'm not sure if it is fair or not is that the dad guy didn't seem to be picking up on distress signals I was sending. Like, when this has happened before, the adult involved has sent glances my way -- is this OK? And then reacted if my "it's fine" visual feedback lagged. That didn't happen here.

Especially, when I decided I didn't like it enough that I wanted to get involved, and went in the pool myself, what would be most usual is for whomever adult sozlet was interacting with to back off, busy him/her-self with his/her own child, etc. There was none of that -- continued eye contact and throwing balls to sozlet, etc., keeping her involved.

But, "signals", way too wishy-washy to base anything on, right?

J_B, I like how you stated that about group pool play. Both times they set up close to us -- the first time they happened to be nearby, the second time they arrived after us and set up right next to us. And at the breaks, sozlet would go over to their towels with them, and have goodies. :-( Oreos, potato chips, that sort of thing. That definitely ties into the whole thing about not liking what was happening but not wanting to be churlish. She'd ask me if she could have some (with her hand hovered over it as it was proferred), and I had to figure out if it was worth it to say "no." I set limits each time ("just one"), but let her. But yeah, the fact that she was being drawn into their out-of-the-pool orbit too is another layer.

I'm definitely tempted to just do my utmost to avoid them, but I'd prefer to deal with it head on, or at the very least have some sort of a back-up plan, as I've only seen them twice so far and don't really have much of a sense of when they're more or less likely to be there anyway.

One aspect is that sozlet is about to start a safety class (her friend was enrolled and the price is good, it's kind of a summer camp sort of thing), I think I may see what they have to say and take the discussion from there. It's a way to talk about the issue without making it specifically about these people.

I know what you mean, but there's a difference between standing up to one's peers and not being influenced by the pervert with a lost puppy. I think seeing how quickly she became comfortable enough with these strangers to let one of them carry her around the pool might have triggered a greater worry. Not necessarily what this man might do, or what ulterior motives this family might have (probably none), but more along the lines of teaching her to be a bit more guarded about trusting strangers.



Possibly, but we all parent by instinct. If your instincts are telling you that you need to worry, then it's coming from somewhere. Maybe dad-type is ahellofaguy and you'll be great friends by the middle of the summer. Right now things are moving too fast for your liking and there's nothing wrong with slowing them down. She can accuse you of over-parenting when she's 14 but at 5 you're still in mama eagle mode.



The gathering at the breaks for the offered goodies is common too. Say no, if she shouldn't have them. If they continue to offer her junk after you've said no then avoidance is certainly warranted.

However, if by avoidance you're letting strangers keep you from an activity that you would normally enjoy and look forward to then I'd say you should skip the avoidance bit and meet it head on.

Do you think she was more comfortable playing with strangers because you were around. Children tend to feel secured when parents are around and try out stuff in their absence that they would not if they were alone. If that is the case, then you may not have to worry too much. Just letting her know how to act with strangers should be enough. BTW, does she know/senses that you were bothered?

Tough one. The way I handle the stranger/people you don't know thing is something like this: I let her know that most people are nice, however, sometimes you don't know who is nice or not nice. Even people who smile could just be pretending to be nice. So it is o-k to talk with people you don't know if mommy or daddy is with you and say it is o-k. If you are not with mommy or daddy you never talk to some one you don't know even if they seem nice and look nice and smile. (my children seem to think if some one just smiles it means they are nice).

As far as your situation, maybe you can extend it to say - these people seem really nice and probably are, but just to be safe we only hug family members and other people that mommy and daddy say are o-k to hug.

I don't know if you feel comfortable about doing this or not, but could you let them know (the people she is playing with) that you prefer them not to play in a certain way? For example, sometimes when I am shopping, people who work there will sometimes give my daughter a cookie or a sticker - I try to explain (nicely) that children shouldn't accept items from strangers so if they could give it to me and then I'll give it to them. Maybe something along the lines (so they don't take offense), I'm trying to teach sozolet about strangers/being safe and she gets confused when I allow her to play with you a certain way, but then tell her no to some one else. To be consistent, it would be better for her to only play this way with her family.

Interesting and really tough. I have difficulty often in situations like this where there are a lot of kids and boundaries are not so easy to come by. I think that your instincts are telling you that hers are not so great yet.

My son once saw twin boys that he knows from school at the pool. They were off and played all together and were often hard to find. But then I saw him over at their table while the boys were having all kinds of treats -- ones that you buy there at the pool. So I got up and went over and introduced myself to the mom and made sure that he knew not to ask for their food. The food thing bothers me, I guess, for a couple of reasons. One is that I don't want him to eat junk but I also don't want him to be greedy or overstay his welcome with them (not saying sozlet is, of course, just my son feels free to ask for other people's stuff). So, maybe for this one thing, you could bring your own snacks and when she asks for theirs, say no, we have our own, come on over and we can have a snack picnic.

It does sound like you are uncomfortable because the boundaries are hard to find, and the adults in that party aren't helpful in that regard. And it looks like communicating with them is not easy either, both because you are deaf and because they seem a tad oblivious to other means of communication. And actually, teenagers are notoriously oblivious to those types of signals.

I think I would approach it this way -- feel free to completely ignore. Try to think of places to draw a line. The food is an easy one. The physical contact is a bit harder. Is climbing on a back ok but maybe hanging off the front not? Or maybe just no rough physical play at all? You don't have to verbalize those limits, but when you see it you could just call her out of the pool for snack time or a bathroom break. Is it possible for her to bring a playmate of her age to the pool?

This has all really been helping, thanks guys.

Concrete steps:

1.) Bring food (good idea, anyway).

2.) Bring playmate (we have done this and have plans to do it again, anyway).

I think at this point I wouldn't plan on doing anything specific about intervention/ asking them to play differently (though I think you had good ideas about how to do so, Linkat). I think I wouldn't ignore them, just kind of be alert and information-gathering, see how things go.

I do agree that I think the center of this is simply my concern that she got to this point so quickly, the pervert with a puppy thing J_B mentioned. So will take the safety class as a starting point for that.

(Oh and FreeDuck, while it's an aside to the main question, yeah, I hate the food mooching. She's been doing that since she was tiny -- whenever she'd see someone eating, anywhere, she'd toddle up to them and look longingly at the food. And more often than not, they'd give her some! Drove me crazy, she's better but it still happens.)

On the aside, that sounds exactly like the duckie.

Those sound like good steps, though, and you seem to have your head around the situation. Let us know how it goes.

I'm checking in mostly to learn.

We have very similar problems - Mo gets friendly too fast.

Lately he has taken to playig with a group of kindergarten/first grade girls a few houses down the street. I've been giving him a little more leash because it is important for him to learn to make friends and to be able to separate from me a bit more. It is scary and complicated.

Also as to the aside -- Mo mooches food from anyone and everyone and kids mooch food from us too. Mo crystalized it all for me a while back when he wailed "but we're all supposed to share" when he decided someone else's picnic looked more tempting. The other mom and I just shrugged, pulled our tables together and let all the kids dig in.

Yeah, I care a lot less when other kids mooch from us than when it's the other way around.

Yeah. Me too. Funny how that is.

Yesterday I was so embarrassed when I went to fetch Mo at a neighbors house and found him sitting at their kitchen table eating tortilla chips, talking to the mom while the other kids ran around the house.

The other mom just laughed at my embarrassement say "It's not like they don't all eat at your house too."

I'm trying to lighten up about some of this kind of stuff.

Yeah, I was uncomfortable with the mooching but realized that sozlet was letting the girl use her goggles + snorkel, so it evens out.

I have pretty much zero compunction about sozlet playing with other kids, love it. It's the huggy stuff with brand-new adult acquaintances that gives me pause.

-sigh-

We'll see.

Oy, I have an instant neg reaction re the riding on strange men's/boy's backs playing monster. Sort of like I don't care how nice they are, I'd want to have that stop.

Not that I think I'm right, just that that was a visceral reaction on reading the problem.