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Moral majority opposes cancer vaccine

 
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 07:07 am
As a person of faith myself, I'd have to say that your hypothesis is incorrect, CR.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 07:29 am
Re: Moral majority opposes cancer vaccine
CoastalRat wrote:

I guess it is possible that they are against the vaccine, but the article quoted never says that. That is simply the point I am making. And the quotes before and after my quoted portion does not do anything to show that they are against the vaccine.


I guess it's possible that they are not against the vaccine but are just against the administration of it, but really, what's the difference?

Truthfully, I'm against making it mandatory too as I am against some other mandatory vaccinations. But the idea that young girls getting this vaccine would somehow become more promiscuous is nothing short of assinine. And there's nothing in the article that indicates they are only against mandatory vaccine requirements, or that their objection is for any other reason than an absurd misunderstanding of why young people have sex.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 07:51 am
Re: Moral majority opposes cancer vaccine
FreeDuck wrote:

I guess it's possible that they are not against the vaccine but are just against the administration of it, but really, what's the difference?


Not the administration of it, the REQUIRED administration of it. That is the only thing the article says specifically about their opposition.

FreeDuck wrote:
Truthfully, I'm against making it mandatory too as I am against some other mandatory vaccinations. But the idea that young girls getting this vaccine would somehow become more promiscuous is nothing short of assinine. And there's nothing in the article that indicates they are only against mandatory vaccine requirements, or that their objection is for any other reason than an absurd misunderstanding of why young people have sex.


I agree that the idea that young girls would become more prociscuous is a bit silly. And if the subject and tone of this thread had simply been that, then I would probably be right there agreeing with you. A girl's values will not change because of a vaccine. But I will always argue when any person/group tries to make something say what it doesn't just for the purpose of making some other person/group look silly and in order to ridicule said group. And that, imo, is what was done here.
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 08:07 am
DrewDad wrote:
As a person of faith myself, I'd have to say that your hypothesis is incorrect, CR.


Being a person of faith really has nothing to do with it. At least in my opinion, it is simple reading comprehension. Being opposed to forcing parents to have the vaccine administered is nowhere near the same as being against the vaccine. Having concerns about young girls thinking they can be promiscuous because of this vaccine is not the same as being against the vaccine.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 08:10 am
How 'bout this, CoastalRat?

Quote:
"Abstinence is the best way to prevent HPV," says Bridget Maher of the Family Research Council, a leading Christian lobby group that has made much of the fact that, because it can spread by skin contact, condoms are not as effective against HPV as they are against other viruses such as HIV.

"Giving the HPV vaccine to young women could be potentially harmful, because they may see it as a licence to engage in premarital sex," Maher claims, though it is arguable how many young women have even heard of the virus.


Here's more from their letter:

Quote:
"Our primary concern is with the message that would be delivered to nine- to 12-year-olds with the administration of the vaccines. Care must be taken not to communicate that such an intervention makes all sex 'safe'."


http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2017968#2017968

This indicates why the mandatory aspect is pertinent:

Quote:
Already, the Family Research Council and other conservative groups have stated they will oppose the vaccine being made mandatory. If the vaccine is not made mandatory for school enrollment, some insurance companies might not cover its cost. The vaccine is expected to cost as much as $300.


http://www.nwherald.com/MainSection/opinion/286213491758370.php

Then there's Focus on Family:

Quote:
In October 2005, Focus on the Family issued a news release headlined, "Some question the ethics of a universal inoculation against a sexually transmitted disease."


(Same source as above.)
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 08:12 am
Cite for the first quote, sorry:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2017968#2017968
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CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 08:30 am
Thanks for the additional quotes Soz.

sozobe wrote:


Quote:
"Abstinence is the best way to prevent HPV," says Bridget Maher of the Family Research Council, a leading Christian lobby group that has made much of the fact that, because it can spread by skin contact, condoms are not as effective against HPV as they are against other viruses such as HIV.

"Giving the HPV vaccine to young women could be potentially harmful, because they may see it as a licence to engage in premarital sex," Maher claims, though it is arguable how many young women have even heard of the virus.


I have no problem with anything in the above and none of it indicates they are against the vaccine. They may believe it can be potentially harmful because some may see it as a license for premarital sex, but heck, young women with little sex education have all kinds of strange ideas about different aspects of sex. Some believe that birth control pills can prevent STD's. Go figure.

sozobe wrote:
Here's more from their letter:

Quote:
"Our primary concern is with the message that would be delivered to nine- to 12-year-olds with the administration of the vaccines. Care must be taken not to communicate that such an intervention makes all sex 'safe'."


Where does this indicate a desire to not allow the vaccine at all? Just wanting to have good info communicated to the girls (and their families) prior to giving the vaccine seems like a good thing, don't you think?

sozobe wrote:
This indicates why the mandatory aspect is pertinent:

Quote:
Already, the Family Research Council and other conservative groups have stated they will oppose the vaccine being made mandatory. If the vaccine is not made mandatory for school enrollment, some insurance companies might not cover its cost. The vaccine is expected to cost as much as $300.


I too oppose it being made mandatory. Doesn't matter how much or how little it costs. Cervical cancer is not a communicable disease, as far as I know. Unless it is, the government has no inherent right to tell me I must have my child vaccinated.

sozobe wrote:
Then there's Focus on Family:

Quote:
In October 2005, Focus on the Family issued a news release headlined, "Some question the ethics of a universal inoculation against a sexually transmitted disease."


Here is the only quote I don't think makes much sense, since as far as I know, cervicle cancer is not classified as a sexually transmitted disease, which makes me think this quote was not about this vaccine or that the person who said this was not quite informed.

Again, unless I am mistaken about cervicle cancer being contagious, nowhere does anyone with the MM state they are against the vaccine. I can be persuaded otherwise if anyone can give a quote which categorically states that.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 08:34 am
Where you are mistaken is that human papillomavirus (HPV) is sexually transmitted; and it can lead to cervical cancer.

The vaccine is actually for HPV, and by extension cervical cancer.

Quote:
1. What is Gardasil?

Gardasil is a vaccine that targets four strains of human papillomavirus (HPV). Those strains are called HPV-6, HPV-11, HPV-16, and HPV-18.

HPV-16 and HPV-18 account for about 70 percent of all cervical cancers. Cervical cancer is cancer of the cervix, which connects the vagina to the uterus.

HPV-6 and HPV-11 account for about 90 percent of genital warts.

The vaccine is also approved to help prevent vaginal and vulvar cancers, which can also be caused by HPV.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/08/health/webmd/main1695636.shtml
0 Replies
 
CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 08:47 am
sozobe wrote:
Where you are mistaken is that human papillomavirus (HPV) is sexually transmitted; and it can lead to cervical cancer.

The vaccine is actually for HPV, and by extension cervical cancer.

Quote:
1. What is Gardasil?

Gardasil is a vaccine that targets four strains of human papillomavirus (HPV). Those strains are called HPV-6, HPV-11, HPV-16, and HPV-18.

HPV-16 and HPV-18 account for about 70 percent of all cervical cancers. Cervical cancer is cancer of the cervix, which connects the vagina to the uterus.

HPV-6 and HPV-11 account for about 90 percent of genital warts.

The vaccine is also approved to help prevent vaginal and vulvar cancers, which can also be caused by HPV.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/06/08/health/webmd/main1695636.shtml


Thank you Soz. See, even I can admit to being a bit in the dark about medical items.

So the virus, which may lead to cervical cancer, is a sexually transmitted virus. And I can see why some would want to have their children vaccinated for this. But I still do not see where anyone is against the vaccine. Even the FOTF quote does not say they are against the vaccine, only that they have concerns about it.

I personally would still be opposed to the vaccine being mandatory. It should not be. And if MM or anyone else were to be against the vaccine altogether, then I would say that was silly and they were wrong. But so far, that does not seem to be the case.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 09:11 am
Re: Moral majority opposes cancer vaccine
CoastalRat wrote:
woiyo wrote:
Well in my view, FRC should tend to it's own flock and keep their opinion out of my life. If they want to brainwash their own, that's their businees. They have no right or basis in forcing their opinions on others.


Woiyo, that would be exactly my opinion about the government making mandatory a vaccine for cervical cancer. It is not an infectious disease and thus making it mandatory to vaccinate a child is nothing but government making decisions that are best left up to a parent. I personally have no issue with the vaccine or with groups recommending that it be given, but I would draw the line at making it a requirement.

So, unless the MM comes out and says they are against the vaccine altogether, then I don't see a problem with the stance they seem to be taking.


I tend to disagree with your position here. The Govt, DOES have the right to demand certain vaccinations on children as presently children are vaccinated for several diseases.

Now, I did not see where in the article the Govt will make THIS vaccination mandatory. If I missed it, please point that out.

However, the issue in my mind is NO SPECIAL INTERST GROUP, especially some religious group, should have ANY SAY in the commercial dealings of any business, unless that business DIRECTLY causes harm to someone. That is not the case here.

If this religious group does not agree with the use of this vaccination, they can tell their flock not to use it. I object when it crosses that line, which in this case, it appears this religious group HAS crossed the line.
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CoastalRat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 09:35 am
Woiyo, I agree with you more than you think. I know the government does have a right to require certain vaccinations. I stated only that they should not be in the business of requiring vaccinations for those things that cannot be transmitted by casual contact. Things such as measles, mumps, etc that are easily transmitted and contagious should have a vaccine required since the idea is to protect society from an epidemic. That is not the case with this particular vaccine.

And no, the government has not said it would be mandatory yet. But neither has the MM said they are against the vaccine. At least not anywhere quoted in this thread. Only that they have concerns and that they would be against the required use of the vaccine.

And I agree to some degree with your statement about special interest groups. They should have little say about whether a product hits the market or not. But there is nothing wrong with a group expressing concerns about how the product will be marketed or the effects of marketing it.

As for your final statement, I agree wholeheartedly with the first part. There are lots of legal products that religious people are urged to stay clear of. I don't however believe that the Moral Majority has crossed the line.

So I think our only disagreement really seems to be exactly what brought me to post to this thread in the first place. I do not see where the stated quotes given here is any proof that the Moral Majority is against the vaccine even being available, which was the claim made to begin this discussion. I'm still quite open to being shown otherwise.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 09:38 am
Remembering that we humans are notoriously bad at summing up views we disagree with, I decided to look for primary sources instead of media soundbites. So I went to the website of the Family Research Council and entered "hpv vaccine". One document paper popped up, which turned to be the FRC's position paper on the issue. Here it is.

http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=LH06B03

Having read their position in their own account, my impression is that "Moral Majority opposes cancer vaccine" is an utterly unfair summary of their position. In this document at least, the FRC sounds like a bunch of people I disagree with, but not fanatics who would sacrifice their daughters' health to their prudishness.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 09:41 am
Agreed that the title of the thread is not technically accurate.

I remain opposed to their reasoning.
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 09:57 am
FreeDuck wrote:
I remain opposed to their reasoning.

I don't. I am opposed to their ethical premise that sex is bad unless it's fenced in by monogamy and marriage. But there's nothing wrong with their reasoning. If I agreed with their premise, I would agree with their conclusions. And even so I can agree with many of their factual points, such as (1) The vaccination should not be obligatory, since the virus is not transmitted through breathing or casual contact. (2) If you vaccinate girls against one but not all sexual diseases, or even against some but not all HPV strains, girls will be inclined to feel safer than they really are. (3) These medical realities should be brought to the attention of the girls and their parents.

So yeah, I disagree with them on some points about sex. But that's in the same spirit as disagreeeing with my liberal friends about some points of economics, such as the minimum wage or Walmart's being evil. It's not at all like the way I'd oppose some scary cult.
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 10:03 am
Good for you.
0 Replies
 
Chai
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 10:08 am
squinney wrote:
Started this one a little over a year ago.

Some of the same arguments taking place still, but NPR was saying the other day that not as much opposition is out there now as when it was first being reported.



Yeah, I heard that same thing on NPR.

BTW -

When I was 12 years old I did know what sex was, and how it was done (not through personal experience I should note). However, I'm quite sure I didn't even know what a cervix was, where it was, or what it did.

I don't think many 12 and unders are concerned with such details.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 10:39 am
Just surfed to "Focus on the Family". They have three brochures on the issue, which you can download from here. "Focus on the Family" seems to get in touch with its culty side a little more ...

Focus on the Family wrote:
The seriousness of HPV and other STIs underscores the significance of God's design for sexuality to human wellbeing. Thus, Focus on the Family affirms - above any available health intervention - abstinence until marriage and faithfulness after marriage as the best and primary practice in preventing HPV and other STIs.

... but arrives at a reasonable conclusion in the end ...

Focus on the Family wrote:
Therefore, Focus on the Family supports widespread (universal) availability of HPV vaccines but opposes mandatory HPV vaccinations for entry to public school. (Emphasis theirs, T.)

Source for both quotes (PDF)

Overall, they sound more irksome to be, but still nothing seriously threatening.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 10:45 am
CoastalRat wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
As a person of faith myself, I'd have to say that your hypothesis is incorrect, CR.


Being a person of faith really has nothing to do with it. At least in my opinion, it is simple reading comprehension. Being opposed to forcing parents to have the vaccine administered is nowhere near the same as being against the vaccine. Having concerns about young girls thinking they can be promiscuous because of this vaccine is not the same as being against the vaccine.


CostalRat wrote:
Then again, based on the tone of the posts here, I guess the point was not to generate discussion, but rather was simply to practice bashing people of faith. So far, y'all are doing a good job, so I'll now let you continue.


This is the hypothesis to which I am referring. Bashing the Moral Majority is not bashing people of faith, however much they want you to think that.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 10:55 am
CoastalRat wrote:
I too oppose it being made mandatory. Doesn't matter how much or how little it costs. Cervical cancer is not a communicable disease, as far as I know. Unless it is, the government has no inherent right to tell me I must have my child vaccinated.


When it comes to public health, welfare, and safety, the government is endowed with police power to tell people what to do via the enactment of laws so long as the requirement serves a legitimate government interest. Preventable illnesses and injuries place a strain upon society.

Although automobile accidents are not communicable diseases, the state desires to minimize injuries through mandatory seatbelt laws. Click it or ticket!
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jun, 2006 11:14 am
Debra_Law wrote:
CoastalRat wrote:
I too oppose it being made mandatory. Doesn't matter how much or how little it costs. Cervical cancer is not a communicable disease, as far as I know. Unless it is, the government has no inherent right to tell me I must have my child vaccinated.


When it comes to public health, welfare, and safety, the government is endowed with police power to tell people what to do via the enactment of laws so long as the requirement serves a legitimate government interest. Preventable illnesses and injuries place a strain upon society.

Although automobile accidents are not communicable diseases, the state desires to minimize injuries through mandatory seatbelt laws. Click it or ticket!


I will pretend to be Walter for a second and remind you New Hampshire has no seatbelt or helmet requirement for adults.
0 Replies
 
 

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