Countless My Lai Massacres in Iraq

We have made it worse. Saddam had the country under control, or that is under far more control than we do.. He was fighting Shiite terrorist coming into his country from Iran. We took Saddam out and created a hugh power vacuum that allowed total chaos in Iraq. The Shiites are taking control and we have created a more powerful Shiite coalition. This has not bought more stability to the Middle East; it has created more insecurity and the potential explosion of Sunni and Shiite warfare in countries outside of Iraq.

This invasion was not only not necessary but done with such incompetence that the people of the world must be shaking their heads wondering how the American public can tolerate such stupidity in our government.

The point here is whatever problems there were between Shiites and Sunnis we have made it worse. We have not bought freedom; we have bought death. We have not bought stability but warfare that threatens to engulf all of the Middle East. We have not shown the world that we are the moral leader that we were in the past. We have shown them that we can kill innocent people just as well as terrorist; that we can torture prisoners with the same enthusiasm as Saddam Hussein.

Military sources say more Iraq killings being probed

RAW STORY
Published: Friday June 2, 2006

A new BBC report which purports to show images from a second unprovoked slaughter by American military forces in Iraq also asserts that the US military is investigating as many as two more such incidents, RAW STORY can report.

A close examiniation of the video revealed a reference to several other investigations into Iraqi killings.

TRANSCRIPT:

BBC REPORTER: American military sources say this is one of three or four cases they're investigating. Their line is quite clear.

MAJOR GENERAL WILLIAM CALDWELL, US SPOKESMAN: "The coalition does not and it will not tolerate any unethical or criminal behavior. Any allegations of such activities will be fully investigated and any members found to have committed these violations will be held accountable."

BBC REPORTER: Still, Iraqi civilians are killed with great frequency. Yesterday in Samarra, American soldiers shot and killed a heavily pregnant woman and her mother. She'd gone into labor and was being rushed to hospital by car. The driver got in the wrong lane at a checkpoint.

WATCH THE FULL BBC VIDEO HERE.

MORE SOON. http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Military_sources_say_more_Iraq_killings_0602.html

"Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, lashed out at the American military in the harshest terms anyone in his office has so far used to condemn what he characterized as habitual atrocities against Iraqi civilians.

The American-led forces "do not respect the Iraqi people; they crush them by vehicles and kill them by suspicion," Mr. Maliki said. "This is extremely unacceptable."
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/01/world/middleeast/01cnd-iraq.html?ex=1149825600&en=15bda495d9b8f1b5&ei=5065&partner=MYWAY

This is based on my time in service and the experiences related by my family members who have served/are still serving.

True that one of the first things they teach you is obeying orders.

But shortly thereafter, they have a very in depth class on when it is required for you to NOT obey orders.

My CO (Commanding Officer) tells me to dig a trench or to sadle up and ride shotgun on a convoy, I obey.
My CO tells me to fire on an enemy tank rolling across a field, I obey.
My CO tells me to charge an enemy machine gun position. I obey.
My CO tells me to shoot some unarmed civilians/prisoners, it is my DUTY to disobey that order. If he insists, it's my right to ask for that order in writing... if he still insists, it's my duty to contact the Judge Advocate or HIS CO to protest. If he insists on the spot, it's my duty to arrest my CO for violation of the UCMJ (Universal Code of Military Justice.)

Thats how the system works. We eliminated 'I was just following orders' as a legitimate excuse for your actions at Nuremberg. We teach our soldiers that to be a proper soldier, you must obey orders, but you must filter it through your ability to determine right from wrong.

That may be how the system is suppose to work but, as we have seen, reality is far different.

It seems to me you are suggesting that the actions of a very small minority is enough to paint the entire military force as evil. That could not be farther from the truth. However, you could never understand that.

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I will agree that the administration has done and continues to do a terrible job executing this war.

My position has been and remains that the minute we stopped looking for WMD was the day we should have left Iraq.

Two things;

this is more widespread then a small minority.

The actions of your "small minority" make a large numbered of terrorist who want to kill Americans and their allies.

If it is true that women and children were shot, it would mean only one thing.
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Surely these marines had been told never to murder women and children. If they went into these houses on their own and killed, they were wrong. If they had been ordered to kill, they should have refused.
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Either way, they were not good soldiers.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Graphic_photographs_show_bodies_of_civilians_0602.html Graphic photographs show bodies of civilians killed in Ishaqi, Iraq

Based upon what FACTS can you make such a condemnation?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_civilians_killed_6;_ylt=AoWBAxJzmA19KX3C0NviYX5X6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/02/world/middleeast/02iraq.html?_r=1&hp&ex=1149220800&en=c2a6165c0192d9ee&ei=5094&partner=homepage&oref=slogin

FACTS......... Not allegations.

Have a nice day!

Be patient. The facts you want will show up.

Some time ago, during an interview, a reporter said that after an exchange of fire with some insurgents, there was a body count. The US troops announced that 60 terrorists were killed.
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Nobody knew who was actually fighting and who was just caught in the cross fire. They all look alike. Many innocent victims have been called insurgents because they were killed that way.

Enough already with body counts which have virtually nothing to do with how well, or ill, a military operation succeeded in its mission. One might lose 10 to one and still be the "winner". About the only time numbers become important is during wars of attrition. The Confederacy couldn't replace its casualties and became progressively weaker until the end of the Civil War. German pilots lost during the Battle of Britain weren't available later, so Allied air superiority tore up German formations as fast as they were formed. In Iraq, the number of those dedicated to defeating efforts to rebuild the country is not infinite and attrition is a legitimate U.S. military goal. We want to kill as many dedicated radicals as want to go to Paradise.

Unfortunately, the Iraqi terrorists don't wear uniforms; they hide behind the skirts of their women. They induce children to plant and explode roadside bombs. They infiltrate Iraqi forces so they can betray and murder those who are trying to improve their country. They fire RPGs into Iraqi restaurants filled with people just trying to get a decent meal. Many of these murderers have come from Saudi Arabia, Syria and Iran to participate in their idea of a Holy Jihad. The more of these religious nuts who die in Iraq, the fewer there are to create mischief elsewhere.

It is a great error to believe that in combat only combatants are wounded or killed. Combat is by its very nature traumatic, and errors are common ... always and in every war. Young soldiers heated by emotion and primed to kill the enemy aren't known for philosophical reflection. When bullets are flying, one squeezes the trigger on anything not clearly identified as friendly. Even so, a high percentage of all casualties are the result of "friendly fire". When combat operations take place in a crowded urban area, the number of unintended casualties is multiplied. Bullets come to rest far from anything that was targeted, mortar rounds fall short or wide of the mark. A speeding car is wrongly perceived as a threat and is blown into smithereens. Soldiers in the field don't have the luxury of knowing who is a legitimate target and who is not.

Sometimes, even in the best trained and disciplined military organizations (like the USMC, for instance) there will occasionally be individuals who come to enjoy the lack of social restraint when it comes to killing. Some of those will commit the crime of murder and never be caught. Its awfully hard to tell later, and from a distance, which killings were justified and which were not. When a group of civilians are rounded up, disarmed and then shot without provocation, a serious crime has occurred. The U.S. Military will prosecute soldiers found guilty of such crimes to the maximum. That will happen after a proper investigation and Courts Martial by a very unforgiving USMC.

In the meantime, this becomes more fodder for enemy propagandists. Someone mentioned above, a photo of corpses riddle with bullets published by supporters of the enemy. Perhaps, but on the other hand the whole thing might have been staged to undermine U.S. morale.

In any case, war is not a movie and real people suffer when modern military action takes place in urban areas against an enemy too cowardly to wear a uniform. It is the Iraqi terrorists who have chosen to conduct their fight inside the cities, our just soldiers follow the sound of the guns. If the Iraqi "insurgents" had any sympathy for the population, they would find other battlefields. Oh course, that would negate their strategy of trying to steal a victory by convincing the American People to cut and run.

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, AND DAMN THE ENEMY!
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Asherman, I believe we all support the brave, and honest troops who act with integrity and ambassadors of the free world. It's the administration that sent them into battle and the "bad apples" who are losing support.

Do you have any evidence to suggest that the frequency of these detestable incidents is greater than in past wars? You seem to be implying that it is worse.

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent".
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All wars are cruel and inhuman. Some wars are necessary and some are not.
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The Iraq mess was not necessary. Americans and even the soldiers are waking up to question it.
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The British have 1000 AWOLs already.
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http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7003742679