Bible vs. Science

Since when is love a bomb?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_bombing

You might as well forget about trying to use Josephus as provenance; as a Jew, he naturally would have knowledge of and respect for the Jewish Canon,

... The book of Isaiah provides a fine illustration of the growth of prophetic traditions. The entire book of Isaiah is attributed to Isaiah ben-Amoz (not to be confused with the prophet Amos) by the editorial superscription in 1:1. In fact, the book contains prophetic material spanning more than two hundred years. A nucleus of material is attributable to Isaiah of Jerusalem, a citizen of Jerusalem in the eighth century B.C.E. The remainder comes from a series of anonymous disciples (see 8:16, which mentions his followers) and prophets who saw themselves, or were seen by editors, as coming out of the Isaiah mold.
The book of Isaiah is widely recognized to consist of three sub-collections. Chapters 1-39 is First Isaiah. The core of this collection is prophecies from the namesake of the book who lived in the eighth century B.C.E. In this period Israel and Judah were threatened by the Assyrian empire. Chapters 40-55 is Second Isaiah also called Deutero-Isaiah. This collection consists largely of salvation oracles applying to the situation of exile in Babylonia dating to the mid-sixth century B.C.E. Chapters 56-66 is Third Isaiah, also called Trito-Isaiah, and applies to the late sixth century in Judah where a Jewish community was struggling to rebuild itself. Source

The book of Isaiah actually appears to be a composite work of different prophets (or prophetic bands): "First Isaiah" before the Babylonian Exile (in the eighth century), "Second Isaiah" during the Exile (sixth century), and "Third Isaiah" after the Exile (later sixth century; see the chapter breakdown of all three Isaiahs on p. 145 of the textbook). All of the authors focus on God's judgment, the covenant, and the majesty and righteousness of God.
Source

Students of the Book of Isaiah have long recognized that there are three Isaiahs writing in this book, spread out over a two to three century period.
Source

Modern scholarship remains convinced that the book of Isaiah emerged over a period of two or three centuries.
Source

There is a significant school of scholars, perhaps even the majority, who believe that there were two or three Isaiahs, for example -- one who wrote in 8th century BC, one in 5th century BC and another even later.
Source

Most scholars today see three Isaiahs, for chapters 1-39, 40-55, and 56-66, describing three periods:threat of punishment, exile, and restoration.
Source

Like George A. F. Knight's earlier commentaries on Isaiah 40-55 and 56-66, Widyapranawa also presupposes the standard critical theory of "three Isaiahs." The portions of chapters 1-39 which are usually ascribed to later redactors are duly
noted, as are other well-accepted critical views of the text.
Source (Note: 31 pg .pdf dowload)

For example, in the Book of Isaiah, scholars have found eight different layers of tradition - three Isaiahs, one after another, then a committee, and so on. There is deterioration in the religion when people write down not what they know but that they have been told, and then quarrel about minutiae.
Source

For example, at least three "Isaiahs" contributed to the book in a different time period.
Source

Just as on the case of Isaiah, commentators are strongly convinced that there were three Isaiahs, so here there is a strong conviction that there are two Zecharias.
Source

They used to say there were two Isaiahs, then there were three Isaiahs, then there were four Isaiahs and, finally, now they say there's the "school of Isaiahs."
Source

The simple fact is that the overwhelming consensus of scholars not of evangelical, fundamentalist, conservative Christian, Biblical literalist persuasion is that Isaiah comprises the work of multiple authors over a period of centuries. While fundies dispute this assessment of Isaiah, theirs is a contrarian, minority viewpoint founded in nothing more concrete than determination to believe regardless of evidence.

Quote:

... The book of Isaiah provides a fine illustration of the growth of prophetic traditions. The entire book of Isaiah is attributed to Isaiah ben-Amoz (not to be confused with the prophet Amos) by the editorial superscription in 1:1. In fact, the book contains prophetic material spanning more than two hundred years. A nucleus of material is attributable to Isaiah of Jerusalem, a citizen of Jerusalem in the eighth century B.C.E. The remainder comes from a series of anonymous disciples (see 8:16, which mentions his followers) and prophets who saw themselves, or were seen by editors, as coming out of the Isaiah mold.
The book of Isaiah is widely recognized to consist of three sub-collections. Chapters 1-39 is First Isaiah. The core of this collection is prophecies from the namesake of the book who lived in the eighth century B.C.E. In this period Israel and Judah were threatened by the Assyrian empire. Chapters 40-55 is Second Isaiah also called Deutero-Isaiah. This collection consists largely of salvation oracles applying to the situation of exile in Babylonia dating to the mid-sixth century B.C.E. Chapters 56-66 is Third Isaiah, also called Trito-Isaiah, and applies to the late sixth century in Judah where a Jewish community was struggling to rebuild itself. Source

Quote:

The book of Isaiah actually appears to be a composite work of different prophets (or prophetic bands): "First Isaiah" before the Babylonian Exile (in the eighth century), "Second Isaiah" during the Exile (sixth century), and "Third Isaiah" after the Exile (later sixth century; see the chapter breakdown of all three Isaiahs on p. 145 of the textbook). All of the authors focus on God's judgment, the covenant, and the majesty and righteousness of God.
Source

Quote:

Students of the Book of Isaiah have long recognized that there are three Isaiahs writing in this book, spread out over a two to three century period.
Source

Quote:

Modern scholarship remains convinced that the book of Isaiah emerged over a period of two or three centuries.
Source

Quote:

There is a significant school of scholars, perhaps even the majority, who believe that there were two or three Isaiahs, for example -- one who wrote in 8th century BC, one in 5th century BC and another even later.
Source

Quote:

Most scholars today see three Isaiahs, for chapters 1-39, 40-55, and 56-66, describing three periods:threat of punishment, exile, and restoration.
Source

Quote:

Like George A. F. Knight's earlier commentaries on Isaiah 40-55 and 56-66, Widyapranawa also presupposes the standard critical theory of "three Isaiahs." The portions of chapters 1-39 which are usually ascribed to later redactors are duly
noted, as are other well-accepted critical views of the text.
Source (Note: 31 pg .pdf dowload)

Quote:

For example, in the Book of Isaiah, scholars have found eight different layers of tradition - three Isaiahs, one after another, then a committee, and so on. There is deterioration in the religion when people write down not what they know but that they have been told, and then quarrel about minutiae.
Source

Quote:

For example, at least three "Isaiahs" contributed to the book in a different time period.
Source

Quote:

Just as on the case of Isaiah, commentators are strongly convinced that there were three Isaiahs, so here there is a strong conviction that there are two Zecharias.
Source

Quote:

They used to say there were two Isaiahs, then there were three Isaiahs, then there were four Isaiahs and, finally, now they say there's the "school of Isaiahs."
Source

(John Ankerberg, no less )

See also:
A History of Prophecy in Israel: Blenkinsopp, J.
John Knox/Westminster Press, Louisville Ky (1983, Rev. Sept 1996)
ISBN: 0664256392

Prophecy and Society in Ancient Israel: Wilson, R.
Augsburg Fortress Publishing, Minneapolis Mn (1980)
ISBN: 0521423929

The World of Ancient Israel: Clements, R. (Ed.)
Cambridge University Press, New York NY
ISBN: 0800618149

Anchor Bible Dictionary: Freedman, N. (Ed)
(Isaiah 34-35,40-66, John L. McKenzie (1969), Isaiah 1-39, Joseph Blenkinsopp, 2000, Isaiah 40-55, Joseph Blenkinsopp, 2002, Isaiah 56-66, Joseph Blenkinsopp, 2003)
6 Vols, Random House Reference and Information Publishing, New York NY (1992, Rev. 2005)
ISBN: 038542583(1-6)

I could go on and on, but what would be the point? The fundies get all wadded up about it - as they do whenever they are subjected to objective criticism - but that does not change the fact that the overwhelming consensus of legitimate, objective, academically founded scholars is that Isaiah is the work of several authors and took shape over a period of centuries before becoming canonized as it today is, and from somewhere in the 2nd Century BCE has been, known.



Oh, and rl, wholly apart from the above - if you still can't see your straw man re my Josephus remark to Neo, that's not only understandable, but frankly to be expected ... as well as pathetic.

You might as well forget about trying to use Josephus as provenance; as a Jew, he naturally would have knowledge of and respect for the Jewish Canon,

Any scientist ought to know that according to the materialist theory of mind, which is, or purports to be, a scientific theory, all thoughts are objects consisting of the usual stuff. It gets a bit complicated after that.

Science studies material materially.It doesn't study the immaterial at all. It doesn't accept there is any such thing as the immaterial.

I began my short career on A2K to expose the fraud of philosophy ...

Unlike you, RL, Timber is actually giving evidence to support his suggestions. The references themselves, will tell you how they came to their conclusions and the references within those books or articles will tell you how good their assumptions are.

These four chapters come from so-called Second Isaiah, probably written very near the end of the Babylonian Exile.

Most scholars today see three Isaiahs, for chapters 1-39,
40-55, and 56-66, describing three periods:threat of punishment,
exile, and restoration. We consider this is possible, but there
is surely no convincing proof that there were three.

There is a significant school of scholars, perhaps even the majority, who believe that there were two or three Isaiahs, for example -- one who wrote in 8th century BC, one in 5th century BC and another even later. I think one of the purposes of the BoM is to put to rest that argument and show that Isaiah was one prophet at one time. But some of these archeological finds show that the history of the OT is actually quite accurate -- the inscriptions on Hezekiah's tunnel exactly mark the history as claimed in the OT, for example. That was the point I was trying to make.

Seventhly, the Bible is a reliable record of biblical authorship. Matthew wrote Matthew; Mark wrote Mark; John wrote John; Luke wrote Acts; Paul wrote the Pauline epistles; Isaiah wrote Isaiah. They used to say there were two Isaiahs, then there were three Isaiahs, then there were four Isaiahs and, finally, now they say there's the "school of Isaiahs." Imagine a seminary dedicated to the glory of God where the students conspired with the faculty to produce a book in the name of someone dead for centuries and then palm it off on the gullible public and they did this with the approval of God and man, and you have liberal scholarship.

One site referred to the 'so-called Second Isaiah', a phrase that doesn't conjure up ideas of scholarly certainty.

We consider this is possible, but there
is surely no convincing proof that there were three.

And I've already commented on Dr Morey's statement on John Ankerberg's website. Morey mocks the idea of three Isaiahs, but Timber quoted him as if he supported it.

So, Wolf, I've got to say that I am just not very impressed with the links provided by Timber on this subject. Beyond asserting the same point (well, at least SOME of them do), they don't seem to have much in the way of evidence to offer.