Abortion.What do you think about it?

Miller wrote:

JOE from Chicago Quote:

I take the following positions:
1. all abortions are performed for purely frivolous reasons;
2. life begins at the moment of conception.

.........................................................................................................
RESPONSE:

Life does begin at the moment of conception, when the sperm (haploid cell ) fertilizes the egg (haploid cell) and the organism now become a diploid organism.

Actually...a cancer cell is "life."

Joe's positions aside...

...Real life is asserting that the fertilized egg is "a living human being."

That is something a bit different.

Sorta like arguing that an egg is a chicken.

It ain't.

And a fertilized human egg is not "a living human being."

Quote:

No! All abortions are NOT performed for purely frivolous reasons. Would you call a little 13 year old girl, pregnant because her father couldn't "help" himself, a FRIVOLOUS reason?

Seems to me you have some rather self-serving ideas about what "frivolous reasons" are.

If one truly considers abortion to be "murdering a living human being"...wouldn't any abortion (including your example) be "frivolous?"

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Miller wrote:

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
joefromchicago wrote:
Lose their medical license? Why stop there? If a fetus/embryo/blastocyst is a living human being, then abortion is murder and an abortionist is a murderer. In most states, that means that an abortionist could face life imprisonment or the death penalty. Why, then, aren't you advocating capital punishment for abortionists?

To take the concept even further, we must put those whom practice rhythm method contraception to death too, for they are also causing death. Though, it would probably be for manslaughter and not murder.

Death? Death of what?

The embryo, because once you copulate outside the fertile period you're still concepting. However, the conceptions almost always fail. So the embryo dies almost all the time.

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When I posted this topic I expected a good response.But hey never this amount of interest.302 replies and still rising thanks guys.

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Miller wrote:
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
joefromchicago wrote:
Lose their medical license? Why stop there? If a fetus/embryo/blastocyst is a living human being, then abortion is murder and an abortionist is a murderer. In most states, that means that an abortionist could face life imprisonment or the death penalty. Why, then, aren't you advocating capital punishment for abortionists?

To take the concept even further, we must put those whom practice rhythm method contraception to death too, for they are also causing death. Though, it would probably be for manslaughter and not murder.

Death? Death of what?

The embryo, because once you copulate outside the fertile period you're still concepting. However, the conceptions almost always fail. So the embryo dies almost all the time.

Im not on either side here but if people copulate and the sperm doesnt hit the egg it is not a fertilized egg hence no embryo.
It is just a seperate egg, seperate sperm, no murdering occurs.

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Miller wrote:

JOE from Chicago Quote:

I take the following positions:
1. all abortions are performed for purely frivolous reasons;
2. life begins at the moment of conception.

No, that's an inaccurate paraphrase. Here's what I actually said:

As I've said before, I don't care about those issues. It's not that I'm avoiding them, it's that I find them inconsequential. But, to make you happy, you may assume (for the purposes of argument) that I take the following positions: 1. [i]all[/i] abortions are performed for purely frivolous reasons; 2. life begins at the moment of conception.
Note: I said that I take those positions for the purposes of argument. As I have mentioned several times on this thread, I really don't care when life begins or the rationales that women have for obtaining abortions. Frankly, I have no idea when life begins, but then that puts me in the same position as people like you, Miller, who adhere to such simplistic positions as this:

Miller wrote:

Life does begin at the moment of conception, when the sperm (haploid cell ) fertilizes the egg (haploid cell) and the organism now become a diploid organism.

What is it about being a diploid organism that differentiates something "alive" from something "not alive?" What about a diploid cell that, because of some genetic mutation, could never develop into a living human being? Is that cell nevertheless a living human being?

Miller wrote:

No! All abortions are NOT performed for purely frivolous reasons. Would you call a little 13 year old girl, pregnant because her father couldn't "help" himself, a FRIVOLOUS reason?

Well, real life might. After all, he opposes abortions in the cases of rape and incest. Why don't you ask him?

Miller wrote:

You're too naive, to really be from Chicago!

And you are naive in believing that there are no naifs in Chicago.

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material girl wrote:

The embryo, because once you copulate outside the fertile period you're still concepting. However, the conceptions almost always fail. So the embryo dies almost all the time.

Im not on either side here but if people copulate and the sperm doesnt hit the egg it is not a fertilized egg hence no embryo.
It is just a seperate egg, seperate sperm, no murdering occurs.[/quote]

The problem with the rhythm method, however, is that fertilisation does occur. The sperm can fertilise the egg, but the embryo that develops isn't viable, so it aborts spontaneously.

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FA wrote-

Quote:

If you were a bit less a stuffed shirt...I might describe a typical romp so you could enjoy it vicariously.

Phew!. I never knew that being a stuffed shirt had another advantage as good as causing you to refrain from that.

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spendius wrote:

FA wrote-

Quote:
If you were a bit less a stuffed shirt...I might describe a typical romp so you could enjoy it vicariously.

Phew!. I never knew that being a stuffed shirt had another advantage as good as causing you to refrain from that.

Touche'!

And I agree.

:wink:

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Clamity Jane wrote:

Who is we "I'm the other one"?
Plenty of us. There are ones who read and don't post a thing also.

Biology lesson #1: a fetus/embryo is not a baby
Your opinion does not make it FACT.

Judical lesson # 1: Abortion is legal
Of course it is! This is the devil's world (for now)

Human lesson # 1: Helping instead of preaching
And you call killing innocent living humans...helping?

I do suppose alot of people feel that we need to cut down on the population, but this isn't the way.

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Since there's to be no religious talk on this one, I'll continue without it.

How can a developing baby, just because it's inside the womb, not be considered a baby? It's so sad.

When one is pregnant, and you start feeling that little flutter inside the tummy that lets you know there is a growing being inside of you. Then the baby starts getting bigger, and kicking. You know by now they are fully developed, heart beating, brain functioning, tiny fingers and toes, the works! Even before you can feel them kick they are all these things. Then they get their foot, or elbow stuck in one spot in your stomach and you can see it and tell what it is! You finally get that ultrasound...then you can see that baby bouncing around in there, so alive. Sucking it's thumb. Yawning...whatever else they decide to do. Mine looked like she was waving, it was so adorable.

Then, when you finally deliver that baby, before the cord is clipped, you know that you have been thru the most amazing experience in your life and that it will continue for years to come.

I know there are traumatic experiences for young girls tho such as rape or incest, who don't get to have the pleasure of actually wanting a child. I was raped when I was a virgin and if I was pregnant at the time, I would be very afraid too. But it's not the baby's fault either. He/she didn't ask for this. To be poisoned and torn apart. To feel the pain or horror of literally having the life sucked out of them. There is adoption and plenty of women out there who can't have children, but want to. The girl has to go thru the pain of delivering the child anyway once it's dead after the abortion.
I don't care if this gets reported for being too graffic, even tho I've seen some much more vulgar things posted in this forum. I don't care if I get kicked out of here either personally because It sickens me how one can be so cruel and heartless. And yes, if you do know in your heart that it's murder but still find it an advantage, then it's cruel. but, if you actualy have no clue (not sure how that's possible), but it seems to be the way it is, then I truely feel so sorry for you. Sad

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http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5553/666posts29dh.jpg

This response from "I'm the other one" reminds me of something from the bible.

My name is Legion: for we are many (Mark 5:6-9).

Shocked

Is there an exorcist in the house?

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I'm the other one wrote:

I do suppose alot of people feel that we need to cut down on the population, but this isn't the way.

I agree.

I say we breed more lions.

Way too many Christians for the number we've got now.

Twisted Evil

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kickycan wrote:

This response from "I'm the other one" reminds me of something from the bible.

My name is Legion: for we are many (Mark 5:6-9).

Is there an exorcist in the house?

Okay, Legion. I'm impressed. So how'd you do this black border thingy????

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Don't worry Other One.

They won't kick you out for that. It was sweet and fragrant.

I was like that myself once although I'm not supposed to be able to remember it in any articulate way.

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Frank:

Photoshop.

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Oh crap kicky, did you happen to see my post # on that one?

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Frank Apisa wrote:

I'm the other one wrote:
I do suppose alot of people feel that we need to cut down on the population, but this isn't the way.

I agree.

I say we breed more lions.

Way too many Christians for the number we've got now.

Are you a Leo?

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spendius wrote:

Don't worry Other One.

They won't kick you out for that. It was sweet and fragrant.

I was like that myself once although I'm not supposed to be able to remember it in any articulate way.

Thank you Spendius.

If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by not supposed to remember it articulately?

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I'm the other one wrote:

Oh crap kicky, did you happen to see my post # on that one?

Yeah. Freaky!

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itoo wrote-

Quote:

If you don't mind me asking, what do you mean by not supposed to remember it articulately?

I meant when I was on the ovarian trolley and unlikely to fancy being grabbed by a business man with a pair of forceps and dumped in the waste bin.

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Abortion.What do you think about it?

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