Can I? Huh? Huh? Can I? Huh? Can I? Can I?

If you have hundreds of examples you can give, you need to get Mo to the doctor soon. One that won't just brush it off either.

Take it from me. I didn't know what the term obsessive compulsive meant when I was little, but I sure knew there were things I HAD to do.

It runs your life, and to this day, even though I'm on a med that inadvertantly helps although I take it for something else, there are times when I have to pull myself up short and say to myself mentally "STOP THAT!"

We have two approaches:

1. After a while, start reminding her of what the last answer was, and what does she think the answer will be this time.

2. Tell her that this is the last time we will answer the question. Let her ask one more time, and then answer it.

The second approach seems to work better than the first....

I know that some of this is perfectly normal and I know I don't have enough experience with kids to know when some line has been crossed.

It really does seem like something he "has" to do instead of something that he just "wants" to do.

Those approaches work with us, DrewDad, on things where the answer is "No". It is those "sometimes yes" situations that are problematic.

I have resorted to "If you ask again, the answer is no". That starts up a whole "Tomorrow I'm going to go blahblahblah".

Can he tell time? "I've answered that for now. Don't ask again until the first number on the clock is five....."

I'd guess that Mo's obsessive urgency means that he--more than most kids--has a need to be in charge of his world.

Drew Dad has a great approach with, "What did I say last time." Since Mo is older I'd add, "And why did I say that?"

He's not stalking the neighbors--he's stalking the puppy. I'd guess that the puppy's youth and ignorance and adulation make Mo feel in charge.

If you have time and patience, find a large piece of posterboard--or cardboard. Label it, "Mo's World". Write "puppy" in bright red small letters down in one corner. Ask him what else is in his world.. dinner, action man, jellyfish, garden....and let him choose colors and sizes of print.

Call it "pre-reading" time. Pluck out another gray hair.

Hold your dominion.

are you opposed to giving Mo some teas and things like that?

Maybe you could start putting just a little chamomile in his juices and sodas and see if that helps take the edge off.

too simple a solution I know..

but jillian does this to me now.

Jillian- Jewww? (juice)

Me- In a minute, because Im busy ______fill in blank__

Jillian ( screaming ) PEEESE PEESE ( please ) PEEESE PEESE PEEESE PEESE
PEEESE PEESE PEEESE PEESE PEEESE PEESE
PEEESE PEESE PEEESE PEESE PEEESE PEESE

literally.. until I get her juice.
Even if I am MAKING her juice right then.
Or if I am eating
Or making food
Or coloring with her

or what ever.

It is a demand. Not a request.
And for me, that bothers me.
Yeah.. shes 2.. understand that.
I also, like you Boom, KNOW that kiddos obsess and get excited when they want something..
but damn.

I douse my child with some chamomile and it seems to take the edge off when she gets to that PEEESE PEESE PEEESE PEESE PEEESE PEESE mode.

Some kids get 'stuck' more often than others. In some, OCD is truly indicated, in others it's more marginal. Try something like, "You've asked me five times and I've given you my answer five times. The answer hasn't changed and I've explained my reasonings. I think you're stuck so I'm going to let you ask me three more times and I'm going to give you my answer three more times and then we can move on. Ready? Go, ......"

It turns it into a game and helps break the spell, if it is indeed a spell. If it's pathological (OCD) then this won't work at all.

I agree that it could well be in the normal end of preschooldom -- preschoolers are plain weird!

As with any of these things, I'd suggest getting some professional advice if you're concerned. I think it's definitely not a slam-dunk that it's a problem, though.

I understand what you're saying about the difference between an always-no situation and a sometimes-yes situation.

I think with sozlet I'd just out and say a lot of what you're saying here. "Look, I know you want to see the puppy, I won't forget you want to see the puppy, I'll tell you as soon as the puppy is available. But you have to stop asking every other minute! It's driving me crazy. Let's make a deal. You stop asking, and I promise to tell you the instant the puppy can play, OK? Deal? <shake hands>"

After that I'd start getting into negative consequences -- "We already made a deal about this, Mo. If you can't stop asking, then I think [insert consequence here -- can't see the puppy maybe]."

What I have is marginal OCD, I can't even imagine what severe would be like.

The problem is, being told by someone else to stop just doesn't work. Reasoning with them doesn't help.

You see, giving in to the behavior is a release for the person. It's biochemical. Resisting is more than, "Oh, I'll wait until after dinner to have a cookie" It's an urge repeating over and over, and only by doing whatever the urge gives relief....very temporary relief....it's a vicious cycle because every time you give in, you strengthen the urge.

Seriously boom...it may not be his problem, but it's something you should definatley have checked out.

<Jotting down notes from Sozobe's post.>

That really hits it on the head!

Still, I've been reading up a bit on OCD and it really doesn't seem to fit other than the hiccoughing thoughts. Unless the asking itself can be viewed as ritualistic behavior.

Giving him the option of asking a few more times didn't work - that is why I have the ask again and the answer is "No" rule now.

This whole puppy thing is further complicated by the fact that it is not really my exclusive decision whether Mo gets to play with the puppy or not. It is really the neighbor's decision too. Maybe that is why this particular obsession is being so hard to nudge out.

Hmmm.

Let me fill you in on the typical puppy day:

Mo: Can I play with King today?

Me: Maybe. We'll have to see what is going on today?

Mo: But look, they're home!

Me: It is 6 o'clock in the morning. You can't play with King right now.

Mo: But they're home!

Me: No! You can't go over there.

Mo: But they're home. Look! Please let me play with King.

Me: No.

Mo: Look their lights are on (6:30AM)

Mo: Look they're outside (7:00AM)

Me: B is getting his newspaper. They aren't ready to play.

Mo: But he's outside! Look!

Me: No. You aren't going over there.

Mo: Please let me play with King today. (7:15AM)

Mo: Please let me play with King today. (7:20AM)

Mo: Please let me play with King today. (7:25AM)

Mo: Please let me play with King today. (7:26AM)

Me: Look, pal. We talk about this every day. Sometimes it works out that you get to play with King. Sometimes it doesn't. We will have to wait and see.

Mo: Please let me play with King today. (7:28AM)

Me: If you ask again the answer is "No".

Mo: THEY'RE OUTSIDE! (8:30)

Me: They're getting in the car. They're leaving.

Mo: Please let me play with King today.

Me: Now it isn't going to happen no matter what.

Mo: Tomorrow I'm going to play with King.

Mo: Can I play with King tomorrow? (8:35AM)

Mo: Can I play with King tomorrow? (8:40AM)

Mo: HE'S HOME! PLEEEEEEESE LET ME PLAY WITH KING! (9:10AM)

Me: You already blew it for today remember? You're not playing with King today.

Mo: Can I play with King tomorrow? (9:12AM)

I'm not so sure sozlet wouldn't be doing the same if there was a puppy next door.

We definitely have similar discussions when she wants to go play with a neighbor or say hi or visit or whatever and I have to explain about private time or they're busy -- it's not a very preschool concept. (She's getting it, but...)

It sounds like with this one some kind of parameters have to be laid out. Like, arrange with neighbors ahead of time that Mo can play with King at 10:00 AM on Saturday. Then keep it to that, nothing between now and then even if the opportunity presents itself, and tell Mo that he has to quit with the incessant asking or he won't get that opportunity -- and stick to it.

If it's preschool weirdness as opposed to something more serious, just arresting the pattern will help.

(Note, if it doesn't work that doesn't mean it's something more serious, just that I have a lot more experience with standard-issue preschool weirdness.)

This is good to know.

Thank you.

I am sitting here ignoring the raging tears and tantrum in the next room because "I can't talk to you until you can calm yourself down".

ok - now I'm not pushing the ocd, but YES, the asking itself is a ritual.

I would tell someone something, or ask them, especially my husband....a little later I'd feel the need to tell them again...in case he didn't get it all.....then, later, I tell him again in case he forgot.

Same thing with questions....it was like I was anxious that the answer may have changed, so I'd have to ask again. Oh, and it wouldn't be a question that the answer could have changed, like, do you still want to go out?

It would be more like...."we have to be there at 6, so we need to leave at 4:30........later......4:30 is when we're leaving.......

counting the hours to 4:30.....internally...that's three more hours, let's see...it's 1:30....that makes it 3 more hours.....it's 1:30....2:30, 3:30, 4:30, that's 3 hours.

for ritual ocd counting, which was my biggest thing, giving someone a time or an amount or amount just gave me something I could count over and over.

If mo asked you at 7:25..."Can I play with King tomorrow?" and you gave a VERY definite "Yes. You may go over and play with King tomorrow at 9:00 am......would he keep asking...."I'm going to play with king tomorrow, right?" "9:00 tomorrow I'm going to play with king....

Does this sound like mo....?

Somewhere, right about here, I would have added the reason why the answer was no.

You: 6:00 is too early to call anyone. It's not polite to call anyone until after 9:00. If we are home and they are home at 9:00 we can call them and see what their plans are and what our plans are. Please don't ask again until after 9:00. And, don't forget, this is our plan. A plan is not a promise, ok?

Are you giving him complete explanations for your reasoning? Your answer that it is 6 o'clock in the morning might mean more to you than it does to Mo.

Yep, I agree J_B. The whys of it can seem obvious to us but aren't to the preschool-aged kid.

In the discussions about this that sozlet and I have had, the whys help a lot.

Examples of things that were news to her:

"They want to have some private time, just as a family."

"She just got home from work and probably wants to relax for a while all by herself before visiting."

"Even though he's awake, he needs some time to have coffee and wake up a bit before he'll want to talk."

Etc.

General concepts that she's slowly been getting (with a whole lot of why explanations) are that it's better to be invited or to ask if someone is busy first rather than just assuming it's OK to visit, and that people aren't always ready to visit, for a variety of reasons.

And not saying it's not OCD, but the repeated asking is in itself so typical for the age. (Think of the hoary "are we there yet???" chestnut...)

My conversation was a bit abreviated as we have had it every day for the last several weeks. I do try to explain, really I do.

Kids in general, I think, meaning beyond Mo, think everyone's life is like theirs. We get up early so everyone else does too. Right?

And if I say "we're not calling until X o'clock I just get "is it X yet? Is it X now? Now? What about now?"

I don't want to make Mo sound like a lunatic but he does get obsessed.

Chai is right on target.

Like, for instance, he has a "date" with his grandparents for Friday. We've marked it on the calendar. Both yesterday and today I have spent countless minutes explaining when the "date" is. He seems really worried that we will miss it. He is telling everyone, and I mean everyone about the "date".

I'm not completely convinced that he is truly obsessive but... but... but...

I'm so tired and frustrated.

<sigh>