Reply
Sat 13 May, 2006 07:31 am
This is an excerpt from senior writer Michelle Goldberg's new book, "Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism. "
I won't put the entire article on but will provide some excerpts.
Quote:True, our homegrown quasi-fascists often appear so absurd as to seem harmless. Take, for example, American Veterans in Domestic Defense, the organization that took the Ten Commandments on tour. The group says it exists to "neutralize the destructiveness" of America's "domestic enemies," which include "biased liberal, socialist news media," "the ACLU," and "the conspiracy of an immoral film industry." To do this, it aims to recruit former military men. "AVIDD reminds all American Veterans that you took an oath to defend the United States against all enemies, 'both foreign and domestic,'" its Web site says. "In your military capacity, you were called upon to defend the United States against foreign enemies. AVIDD now calls upon you to continue to fulfill your oath and help us defend this nation on the political front, against equally dangerous domestic enemies."
Quote:"People who call themselves Jews represent maybe 2 or 3 percent of our people," Cabaniss told me after a January 2005 rally in Austin. "Christians represent a huge percent, and we don't believe that a small percentage should destroy the values of the larger percentage."
I asked Cabaniss, a thin, white-haired man who wore a suit with a red, white, and blue tie and a U.S. Army baseball cap, whether he was saying that American Jews have too much power. "It appears that way," he replied. "They're a driving force behind trying to take everything to do with Christianity out of our system. That's the part that makes us very upset."
Ed Hamilton, who'd come to the rally from San Antonio, interjected, "There are very wealthy Jews in high places, and they have significant control over a lot of financial matters and some political matters. They have disproportionate amount of influence in our financial structure."
Quote:Between 1984 and 1986, COR developed seventeen "worldview" documents, which elucidate the "Christian" position on most aspects of life. Just as political Islam is often called Islamism to differentiate the fascist political doctrine from the faith, the ideology laid out in these papers could be called Christianism. The documents outline a complete political program, with a "biblically correct" position on issues like taxes (God favors a flat rate), public schools (generally frowned upon), and the media and the arts ("We deny that any pornography and other blasphemy are permissible as art or 'free speech'").
Quote:Speaking to outsiders, most Christian nationalists say they're simply responding to anti-Christian persecution. They say that secularism is itself a religion, one unfairly imposed on them. They say they're the victims in the culture wars. But Christian nationalist ideologues don't want equality, they want dominance. In his book "The Changing of the Guard: Biblical Principles for Political Action," George Grant, former executive director of D. James Kennedy's Coral Ridge Ministries, wrote:
"Christians have an obligation, a mandate, a commission, a holy responsibility to reclaim the land for Jesus Christ -- to have dominion in civil structures, just as in every other aspect of life and godliness.
But it is dominion we are after. Not just a voice.
It is dominion we are after. Not just influence.
It is dominion we are after. Not just equal time.
It is dominion we are after.
World conquest. That's what Christ has commissioned us to accomplish. We must win the world with the power of the Gospel. And we must never settle for anything less...
Thus, Christian politics has as its primary intent the conquest of the land -- of men, families, institutions, bureaucracies, courts, and governments for the Kingdom of Christ."
You know, this would be better suited to the topic of
The Myth of Religious Persecution.
It is exactly the point I was making in that post.
And this thread itself will be considered an attack on Christianity too, when it is merely criticism on the persecution complex. No, we won't be allowed to criticise the persecution complex. That's an attack on Christianity.
No, not an attack on Christianity in general but the conservative wing of Christianity. Christianity, in case your unaware of it, encompasses a very wide range of beliefs. This is a right wing movement within the Christian religion.
This is not a case of religious persecution. These people are not doing this because they feel persecuted. They're doing this to attain power and control. They use the excuse of being persecuted in order to attain their goals.
There is no difference between these people and the Teliban. The religion is different but the ends are the same. I don't think this country is in any danger of falling to these people but I believe the divide in this country over political ideology and religious dogma will intensify and make groups such as these more powerful.
I agree that all this is happening in the US, but I don't think it will succeed. There are WAY too many people here who are not Christian.
EmilyGreen wrote:I agree that all this is happening in the US, but I don't think it will succeed. There are WAY too many people here who are not Christian.
that may be true, but the most ardent of christians (ie fundamentalists) are well represented and vocal
a small majority of muslim fundamentalists are making it very difficult for the majority of perfectly reasonable muslims
""People who call themselves Jews represent maybe 2 or 3 percent of our people," Cabaniss told me after a January 2005 rally in Austin. "Christians represent a huge percent, and we don't believe that a small percentage should destroy the values of the larger percentage.""
Jews trying to destroy America's values? That's pretty nasty.
""People who call themselves Jews represent maybe 2 or 3 percent of our people," Cabaniss told me after a January 2005 rally in Austin. "Christians represent a huge percent, and we don't believe that a small percentage should destroy the values of the larger percentage.""
Jews trying to destroy America's values? That's pretty nasty.
EmilyGreen wrote:I agree that all this is happening in the US, but I don't think it will succeed. There are WAY too many people here who are not Christian.
As well as Christians who do not believe in this style of Christianity. But that doesn't mean we won't be facing a great deal of conflict in the future. Lets also hope they don't turn to violence. It's so easy to kill in the name of a God.
Why were jews the only ones mentioned?
According to the
ARIS (American Religious Identification Survey)*, as reported by The Graduate Center, 19% of Americans didn't identify with one religious group or another in 2001. That's a 9 percentile drop since 1990.
Christians--of any denomination or conservative/liberal standing-- made up 77% of the population (most popularly: Catholic, 24% and Baptist, 16%)
23% are classified as "Other Religious Groups", "No Religious Groups" or "Refused"
They have no support. Just a lot of free time and over-used vocal chords. There are other people around here. They can either accept that or leave.
*This study covers other areas than what I have mentioned. Interesting stuff.
We've had threads like this before. There should be no doubt (although there will always be plenty who are willing to deny) that fundamentalist christians are making a concerted effort to stamp their brand on the nation, if not actually to take over. They don't like the 1987 Supremes decision which outlawed teaching creationistm in schools, so they are now behind "intelligent design." They don't like court decision which outlaw prayer or displays such as the ten commandments (ignoring that there are different versions thereof) in public accomodation, so they hope the pea-wit in the White House can pack the court to suit their taste. They have their own educational institutions in which they hope to train the nation's leaders of the future.
It is doubtful that they would succeed in taking over, but they can go a long way toward imposing their "moral" agenda on the rest of us--and do not doubt that many intend to try. We laugh at clowns like Pat Robertson of Jerry Falwell, but they are taken very seriously by many millions of the gullible, who send in their cash. These jokers ought not to be ignored.
Here's an example of some of their talk on the Rapture forum.
Quote:I Rather the US die the Death of Heros than to fall to the AntiChrist
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is so much talk about if the US is here during the tribulation but to be honest I love my country and if the whole world is against us and we lose by God's divine order I rather lose with dignity of fighting for justice and right than even being rapture out and having America fall into the slavery of the world powers under the AntiChrist.
I have said it before that America reminds me much of the story of Samson. A judge. One who by the divine power of God was able to judge God's enemies and by his sanctification of nazarite vow showed his power to be under the authority of God. God used his great might just because of His submission to God much like how He has used the US. Samson allowed adultry to take away his power much like America has done. But in one heroic feat He once again had the power to take down the enemies of God and in doing so lost His life.
I far rather go out this way than to have this once great nation wimpering at the feet of the Antichrist making deals and playing a part in coming against Israel and God Himself.
SOURCE
This is a good site to see the type of mentality these people have. They are definitely not mainstream America. But Al Qadea and the Teliban are not mainstream Muslim.
People like that delude themselves and attempt to delude others. That joker doesn't love America and never has. He (?) loves a skewed and surreal vision of America. For two centuries America has been a nation of many beliefs, many religious creeds, many philosophies, many ideologies--and that diversity has grown over time. This clown has a make-believe vision of America, which is of "god-fearing christian nation" which never existed.
xingu wrote:EmilyGreen wrote:I agree that all this is happening in the US, but I don't think it will succeed. There are WAY too many people here who are not Christian.
As well as Christians who do not believe in this style of Christianity. But that doesn't mean we won't be facing a great deal of conflict in the future. Lets also hope they don't turn to violence. It's so easy to kill in the name of a God.
"I kill you in the name of Jesus!" soldier 1
"No... I kill YOU in the name of Jesus" soldier 2
-- Eddie Izzard
And with that God will be served. Heaven is assured for the killers.
xingu wrote:No, not an attack on Christianity in general but the conservative wing of Christianity. Christianity, in case your unaware of it, encompasses a very wide range of beliefs. This is a right wing movement within the Christian religion.
This is not a case of religious persecution. These people are not doing this because they feel persecuted. They're doing this to attain power and control. They use the excuse of being persecuted in order to attain their goals.
There is no difference between these people and the Teliban. The religion is different but the ends are the same. I don't think this country is in any danger of falling to these people but I believe the divide in this country over political ideology and religious dogma will intensify and make groups such as these more powerful.
If this was one of the lefts precious groups in this thread most of you would be calling the other people bigots and racists. It is fine when you post attack pieces but when others do it and then make fun of the group it is wrong. It is quite a double standard you all live by.
If this were gays and illegal aliens you would all be calling for someone's head. After all the gays are trying to push their moral standards on the rest of us and the illegals are trying to protest to get the laws changed in their favor. Most of you on this board support those cases so I guess it is no big deal. I see it as a huge double standard and you are all being bigots!
Quote:After all the gays are trying to push their moral standards on the rest of us
really, i thought they just wanted equality, you mean if we allow gay marriage, i'd have to marry a man, i must have missed that in news
Quote:and the illegals are trying to protest to get the laws changed in their favor.
this issue is more difficult, the blame is not solely on the shoulders of the immigrants, most americans (and many europeans) were more than willing to profit from savings made on the backs of these people, and now some of that is coming back to bite you on the ass
Quote:Most of you on this board support those cases so I guess it is no big deal. I see it as a huge double standard and you are all being bigots!
i for one see the immigration problem in the same light as the christianisation of america, the main difference being, the aliens may soon have the power of majority rule, using precious democracy to gain their ends, while the christians are playing a much more stealthy game of big money and lobbying, something i'm not sure jesus would approve of myself
Part I: Battle Cry for Theocracy
By Sunsara Taylor
Truthdig.com
If you've been waiting to get alarmed until the Christian fascist movement started filling stadiums with young people and hyping them up to do battle in "God's army," wait no longer.
In recent weeks, BattleCry, a Christian fundamentalist youth movement, has attracted more than 25,000 people to mega-rally rock concerts in San Francisco and Detroit, and this weekend it plans to fill Wachovia Stadium in Philadelphia.
The leaders of BattleCry claim that their religion and values are under attack, but amid spectacular light shows, Hummers, Navy SEALs and military imagery on stage, it is BattleCry that has declared war on everyone else. Its leader, Ron Luce, insists: "This is war. And Jesus invites us to get into the action, telling us that the violent - the 'forceful' ones - will lay hold of the kingdom."
BattleCry is a part of the evangelical organization Teen Mania, and you can learn a lot about the kind of society that Teen Mania is fighting for by reading up on its Honor Academy, a non-accredited educational institution that offers directed internships to 700 undergraduate and graduate youth each year. Among the academy's tenets: Homosexuality and masturbation are sins. Interns are forbidden to listen to secular music, watch R-rated movies or date; men can't use the Internet unsupervised; the length of women's skirts is regulated. The logic behind this - that men must be protected from the sin of sexual temptation - is what drives Islamic fundamentalists to shroud women in burkhas!
Teen Mania and BattleCry are multimillion-dollar operations that send more than 5,000 missionaries to more than 34 countries each year. Their supporters and members are some of the most powerful and extreme religious lunatics in the country. BattleCry's "partners" include Pat Robertson (who got a call from Karl Rove to discuss Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito before the nomination was made public), Charles Colson (who as President Richard Nixon's lawyer was knee-deep in the Watergate scandal and who went to jail for obstruction of justice in the Pentagon Papers case), and Jerry Falwell (who blamed Sept. 11 on homosexuals, feminists, pagans and abortionists). BattleCry's events have been addressed by former First Lady Barbara Bush (via video) as well as former President Gerald Ford. This weekend's event will include Franklin Graham, who has ministered to George W. Bush and publicly proclaimed that Islam is an "evil religion."
What most of these figures have in common is their insistence that the Bible be read literally and obeyed as the inerrant word of God. And, because Ron Luce leads youth to say in prayer, "I will keep my eyes on the battle, submitting to Your code even when I don't understand," it would be foolish to expect that there is any part of the Bible's literal horrors this movement would be unwilling to enforce, including stoning disobedient children and non-virgin brides (Deuteronomy 21:18-21 and 22:13-21), executing gays (Leviticus 20:13), and keeping slaves (Peter 2:18).
Luce's followers staged a protest in March on the steps of San Francisco's City Hall because gay weddings had taken place there. Their answer to the scourge of rape and violence against women is to end the right of divorce, spread ignorance and insist on virginity - the very things that will entrap more women in these nightmares. And this Friday, they are planning rallies at 50 city halls nationwide.
Of course, like the president, who gave Ron Luce an appointment to the White House Advisory Commission on Drug-Free Communities, BattleCry tells its share of bald-faced lies. For one, it claims that "a society fortified by Biblical principals and a strong moral code ... is the heritage our forefathers fought and died to secure for us." But the word "God" never appears in the Constitution. After three and a half months of debate about what should go into the document that would govern the land, the framers drafted a secular constitution.
BattleCry also claims America has been ?'set aside for God's purposes -Ð a country established for good and fruitfully blessed so that we might take God's message to the ends of the earth." It is revealing that for all its talk about the value of life and the evils of violent imagery, BattleCry never speaks against the real violence and loss of life being inflicted by U.S. troops in Iraq.
Still, there is one thing that BattleCry gets right: This country is in the midst of a deep moral crisis. We are indeed living through times when business-as-usual is unconscionable.
As the Bush regime wages unjust wars and conducts torture in our names, as it leaves New Orleans to rot and drags us closer each day to a theocracy in which abortion and birth control are banned, science is pulled under and gays are persecuted, it is no wonder that young people are searching for meaning and morality. However, the truth is that youth will not find the morality they need in a stadium listening to Ron Luce preach about religious war and intolerance. And they won't find it while buying BattleCry's keepsake dog tags.
These young people need to be challenged to look around themselves and think for themselves.
I am confident that if they do, many of them may find that the truly moral way to live is to throw their tremendous energies and dreams of a better world into stopping this madness and driving out the Bush regime.
This generation Ð- and its counterparts around the world -Ð will have to live with the consequences of this culture war, one way or another.
Part II: Fear and Loathing at Philadelphia's BattleCry
By Sunsara Taylor
Truthdig.com
It began with fireworks so loud and startling I screamed. Lights and smoke followed and a few kids were pulled up on stage from the crowd. One was asked to read a letter.
This was the letter that opened the event. Its author was George Bush. Yes, the president of the United States sent a letter of support, greeting, prayer, and encouragement to the BattleCry event held at Wachovia Spectrum Stadium in Philadelphia on May 12. Immediately afterwards, a preacher took the mic and led the crowd to pray. Among other things, he asked them to "Thank god for giving us George Bush."
On his cue, about 17,000 youths from upwards of 2,000 churches across America and Canada directed their thanks heavenward in unison.
Throughout the three-and-a-half hours of BattleCry's first session, there was only one analogy that fit the experience: This must have been what it felt like to watch the Hitler Youth, filled with self-righteous pride, proclaim the supremacy of their beliefs and their willingness to shed blood for them.
And lest you think this is idle paranoia, BattleCry founder Ron Luce told the crowds the next morning (May 13) that he plans to launch a "blitzkrieg" in the communities, schools, malls, etc. against those who don't share his theocratic vision of society.
Blitzkrieg
Nothing like a little Nazi imagery to whip up the masses. (Editor's note: Commenter Vira (#9278) makes a valid point. "Blitzkrieg" is a German word-not Nazi, per se. And though the term is almost indelibly linked in the popular imagination to Nazi tactics, Wikipedia.org notes that the term "is used in many other non-military contexts.")
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/051406G.shtml#1
Stumble It!
Tweet This
Bookmark on Delicious
Share on Facebook
Share on MySpace