If god is a perfect being....

cicerone imposter wrote:

I'm afraid trying to be a "godly man" would result in a homophobic, slavery approving, bigot with no mercy for innocent children (killed by his world flood).

Really, really harsh. The slavery is true of course, there are several parts of the scripture that can be quoted. As for the innocent children... I believe that the verdict was that all mankind was sinning, apart from Noah. Who can prove the children were innocent? Better to look at the birth of Christ, when king Herod ordered the massacre of all newborn babes in Bethlehem.

As for claiming that this is what constitutes being godly, I think that's going too far. Would you state Mother Teresa harbored any of those qualities?
I think it's questionable to elevate the morals gleaned from an old book over the morals as held up by modern day society (godly vs. goodly), but by making such statements you are stigmatizing people who really don't deserve such descriptions.

Naj

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najme wrote:
I believe that the verdict was that all mankind was sinning, apart from Noah.

How exactly do newborn babies sin? Please be precise in your answer, because I'm interested.

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Re: If god is a perfect being....

jin_kazama wrote:

If god is a perfect being why did he create the universe and everything in it? A perfect being would have need of nothing and want nothing because it would be complete in everyway.... it would not need our "companionship" or love. If anyone can give me a good reason why god created us please do.

Isaiah 43:1-7

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apparently, babies sin because they are covered in the origional sin that adam made, since they were also present at this time in some form (as dna or sperm or something)

This is obviously bollocks.

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najmelliw wrote:

As for claiming that this is what constitutes being godly, I think that's going too far. Would you state Mother Teresa harbored any of those qualities?

Naj

I don't know if she approved of slavery, but all catholics are scripturally bound to be homophobes, and her vehement oposition to contraception in 3rd world countries certainly elevated the level of child poverty, hence suffering.
As for being a biggot..again, catholics are scripturally bound to 'biggotry'
Very 'godly' woman indeed.

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Doktor S wrote:

najmelliw wrote:

As for claiming that this is what constitutes being godly, I think that's going too far. Would you state Mother Teresa harbored any of those qualities?

Naj

I don't know if she approved of slavery, but all catholics are scripturally bound to be homophobes, and her vehement oposition to contraception in 3rd world countries certainly elevated the level of child poverty, hence suffering.
As for being a biggot..again, catholics are scripturally bound to 'biggotry'
Very 'godly' woman indeed.

And quite honestly...if the god being considered is that thing from the bible...she was not particularly godly!

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Ya, I supose if she really believed she would have unleashed a plague or two before whe went....

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And the way she created women was just sadistic! The pain they go through for childbirth is ungodly!

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Quote:

The pain they go through for childbirth is ungodly!

What bible have you been reading? To the malicious egomaniacal guy from the ones I've read such unadulterated sadism would seem right in character.
So, I would say in that respect childbirth is indeed quite godly Razz

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Dok, I take it you're not a woman. Wink

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Dok, I take it you're not a woman.

No, but what has that to do with anything?
I am agreeing childbirth is probably horribly painful, as as such is godly in the sense that the god of the bible seems to enjoy murder, suffering, and pain and unleashes all of the above quite often.

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If you had made yourself clear from the beginning, I would have agreed! LOL

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cicerone imposter wrote:

How exactly do newborn babies sin? Please be precise in your answer, because I'm interested.

Sarcasm rules Smile

OF course I'm not going to claim newborn babies sin. I was simply referring to the biblical story. The old testament states that the sins of the father will be 'inherited'by the children, for seven generations. Given this statement and applying it to the flood...
The bible is rife with such examples. Take the way God slew all the firstborn from the egyptians who refused to let the jews leave. I'm quite sure most of those were innocents as well, but that doesn't change the fact it happened.
Biblical justice is harsh by modern day standards. Period.

Doktor S, re your comments on Mother Teresa.
Every person has foundations for their own principles and morals. While I myself think contraception is a benevolent invention, whcih can certainly alleviate suffering in third world countries, I will not go so far to say that those OPPOSEd to doing so are not just. They may have their reasons, be they religiously founded or not. I for one think Mother Teresa was a devout and virtuous woman. She helped those people with everything she could.

Naj.

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naj wrote:
The old testament states that the sins of the father will be 'inherited'by the children, for seven generations.

Can't you see the conflict here? For seven generations? That would imply god is controlling those generations. What ever happened to "free will?"

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There has never been free will in the Christian religion.

Free will is nothing but cheap talk.

Free will is if you choose God and the "correct" Christian belief you will be rewarded. If not you will be punished.

It's kind of like someone holding a gun to your head and saying; "Give me your money or I'll kill you."

Now you can use your "free will."

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najmelliw wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

How exactly do newborn babies sin? Please be precise in your answer, because I'm interested.

Sarcasm rules
OF course I'm not going to claim newborn babies sin. I was simply referring to the biblical story. The old testament states that the sins of the father will be 'inherited'by the children, for seven generations. Given this statement and applying it to the flood...
The bible is rife with such examples. Take the way God slew all the firstborn from the egyptians who refused to let the jews leave. I'm quite sure most of those were innocents as well, but that doesn't change the fact it happened.
Biblical justice is harsh by modern day standards. Period.

Biblical "justice" is harsh by any sane standard. Period.

If you want to guess there is a God involved with existence...no problem. It is as good guess as the guess that there are no gods. But if you guess there is a God...and then guess that the pathetic, barbarous, murderous, silly, cartoon god described in the Bible is that god...

...you ought really to consider your motivation.

No need to be that frightened of the unknown!

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Mr. Apisa,

Take a look at Greek mythology, and the way Prometheus was treated by Zeus for helping mankind...
Gods were depicted as capricious or callous beings, since that most closely resembled the adverseties and misfortunes that beset men during their struggle for survival.
Hunger, sickness, violent storms, floods... Where is the good and benevolent God when those things happen?

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Quote:

Take a look at Greek mythology, and the way Prometheus was treated by Zeus for helping mankind...
Gods were depicted as capricious or callous beings, since that most closely resembled the adverseties and misfortunes that beset men during their struggle for survival.

Then I suppose we can discount the Biblical God as being no more real than the mythological Greek Gods.

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najmelliw wrote:

Mr. Apisa,

Take a look at Greek mythology, and the way Prometheus was treated by Zeus for helping mankind...
Gods were depicted as capricious or callous beings, since that most closely resembled the adverseties and misfortunes that beset men during their struggle for survival.
Hunger, sickness, violent storms, floods... Where is the good and benevolent God when those things happen?

I suspect the reason most gods are depicted as capricious and callous...is because humans invented them and humans need to depict them as capricious, callous gods in order to make sense of this world with all its chaos and carnage.

In any case, it does appear as though the people who invented the god of the Bible needed a murderous, vindictive, vengeful, petty, jealous, quick-to-anger, slow-to-forgive, laughably tyrannical, savage, cruel, disgusting barbarian....because the invented a murderous, vindictive, vengeful, petty, jealous, quick-to-anger, slow-to-forgive, laughably tyrannical, savage, cruel, disgusting barbaric god.

If the god of the Bible were a human...it would be barred up in an institution for the criminally insane under conditions that would make Hannibal Lecter's incarceration seem like relative freedom.

By the way, Naj...you don't have to call me Mr. Apisa. Call me Frank. You will, in any case, find that I tend to be frank.

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Except that the bible was an incorporation of all the god-knowledge men had at the time of its writing. Their first mistake was writing about the creation of ths universe in six-24 hour days.

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If god is a perfect being....

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