If god is a perfect being....

Man created gods since we evolved from the primates. There used to be sun gods, snake gods, bird gods, and almost anything man was able to imagine to be a god. Gods evolved from inanimate objects to animals and some even made insects god. Then about two thousand years before man created christianity, the Jews created the heavenly god, the creator of the earth and the cosmos. During this period, many cultures had many different kinds of gods, many based on Greek and Egyptian mythology.

Hinduism goes back even further into history, about 8,500 years ago. India also has Jainism and Buddhism to its credit.

It is claimed that Shintoism in Japan is one of the oldest religions, but it is lost in its long history, the origin which is lost in antiquity.

What I'm trying to say is that all human cultures developed some form of religion, and most in their population thought it was the "true" god or religion.

IMHO, humans created religion and gods to placate their insecurities about life. Most people fall into their religion as an accident of birth; they follow the religion of their parents/society/culture - generally speaking. Very rarely does one leave their birth religion or become atheists.

All man-made social organizations have their good and bad influence and actions, but I would put religion and gods near the bottom of the success guage for improving human life.

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I agree entirely with what was said except with

Quote:

Very rarely does one leave their birth religion or become atheists.

I was born into a christian family and attended church for 16 years but now I am an 18 year old atheist/agnostic. I guess I fall under the rare category

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Re: If god is a perfect being....

jin_kazama wrote:

If god is a perfect being why did he create the universe and everything in it? A perfect being would have need of nothing and want nothing because it would be complete in everyway.... it would not need our "companionship" or love. If anyone can give me a good reason why god created us please do.

Thank you jin_kazama for your important question.

God (Allah in Arabic) has honored humans by creating them to be His vicegerents on earth. He gave us free will, which makes us higher than the angels.

But our minds as human beings are limited to the boundaries of human perception. We should bear this in mind and never try to bother ourselves with things that fall outside of our scope of understanding. God did not need to create us, and therefore, we may never understand why He did.

Yes, God is perfect. Yes, He has no need of us; rather, we need Him. When He created us, He did not create us for His own benefit, but for ours. He created us for our advantage, not His.

God does not need to be worshiped; rather, we need to worship Him. Our need of God stems from our innate need of someone to help us and give us safety.

Our purpose of existence on earth is more meaningful than being slaves to worldly gains. There can be no meaningful life better than that prescribed by our Creator, God. Every act done according to God's way is an act of worship. Man is the beneficiary and God is in no need. The Holy Qur'an says what means:
"O ye men! It is ye that have need of Allah: but Allah is the One Free of all wants, worthy of all praise." [Glorious Qur'an 35:15]

We need God to feel our own being and to taste the happiness of life. Our need for Him is like the need of a baby for a supporting father and a merciful mother. We need to admit our powerlessness before Him and to trust Him to give us might and power, since He is the source of all might and power.

Almighty God says what means:
"Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him nor sleep. His are all things in the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures as) before or after or behind them. Nor shall they compass aught of His knowledge except as He willeth. His Throne doth extend over the heavens and the earth, and He feeleth no fatigue in guarding and preserving them for He is the Most High, the Supreme (in glory). " [Glorious Qur'an 2:255]

So, worshipping God Almighty will neither increase nor decrease His greatness and glory. But it serves us as humans to gain the everlasting blissfulness.

And Allah knows best.

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Sorry muslim1 but i have a few problems with your statement. First

Quote:

But our minds as human beings are limited to the boundaries of human perception. We should bear this in mind and never try to bother ourselves with things that fall outside of our scope of understanding

That sure does sound a lot like - you can't understand so just believe and don't ask questions.

Also when you said

Quote:

Yes, He has no need of us; rather, we need Him.

I have no need of god what so ever. I have no desire to worship him. In fact I don't even believe in a "god" or creator

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Re: If god is a perfect being....

jin_kazama wrote:

If god is a perfect being why did he create the universe and everything in it? A perfect being would have need of nothing and want nothing because it would be complete in everyway.... it would not need our "companionship" or love. If anyone can give me a good reason why god created us please do.

God most certainly does not need us. So why would he create? More importantly, why would he create sentient beings?

Perhaps it would be easier for me to give you an answer you would understand once you had fathered children.

I have a few - plus uncountable nieces, nephews and grandchildren.
I don't need any of them.
And, often they are a chore, to put it kindly.
But I would never have it any other way.

Might that help answer your question?

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Thank you jin_kazama for your remarks,

jin_kazama wrote:

That sure does sound a lot like - you can't understand so just believe and don't ask questions.

Not exactly. A person has every right to ask any question. However, there are things that this person can't know. For example, if I ask him: what will happen to me in a week's time (dead/alive, where, ill/healthy...) he won't be able to answer. As human beings, our knowledge is so limited.
As a Muslim, I believe that God is the One who knows everything, that's why I believe in things He revealed even though I can't understand all of them, because my knowledge is limited.

jin_kazama wrote:

I have no need of god what so ever.

Then why are you completely dependant on the food/water He created and on the Oxygen He made?
If you have no need of God, then you are perfect, which is impossible because you - as well as I - have very limited power and knowledge.

And Allah knows best.

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jin_kazama wrote:

I have no need of god what so ever. I have no desire to worship him. In fact I don't even believe in a "god" or creator

I'd be more inclined to believe you on this matter if you had not set forth the question. The mere fact that you ask tells me that you have some level of belief or at least curiosity. One who does not believe in God would not have given as telling an opening statement as you did.

jin_kazama wrote:

If god is a perfect being why did he create the universe and everything in it?

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Hey jin! I am a rare one too in that case!
I was a christain, a really strong christain untill i was about 13. and now im an athiest.
I think it takes courage to turn around to your familly and beileve something different.

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Re: If god is a perfect being....

muslim1 wrote:

God (Allah in Arabic) has honored humans by creating them to be His vicegerents on earth. He gave us free will, which makes us higher than the angels.

Surely that can't be true? The Angels have free will too, otherwise why is it that some disobeyed him and rebelled? They couldn't have done that if they had no free will.

Quote:

But our minds as human beings are limited to the boundaries of human perception.

But I'm assuming that angels are not? If so, then those angels that rebelled against God must be superior to us.

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We should bear this in mind and never try to bother ourselves with things that fall outside of our scope of understanding.

However, if we do that, we will never learn and never grow. Are you truly advocating that we remain ignorant boobs?

Quote:

Yes, God is perfect. Yes, He has no need of us; rather, we need Him. When He created us, He did not create us for His own benefit, but for ours. He created us for our advantage, not His.

However, if he had not created us, we would not have been there to know that he had created us for his own benefit.

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Thank you Wolf_ODonnell for your important remarks,

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Surely that can't be true? The Angels have free will too, otherwise why is it that some disobeyed him and rebelled? They couldn't have done that if they had no free will.

From an Islamic perspective, Angels are different from human beings in that they do not have a will of their own. They were created for the specific purpose of serving God and carrying out His commands. Some Angels are in a state of constant worship of God till the Day of Judgement.
And angels do not disobey their Creator. Indeed, describing a group of Angels, God says: "... who flinch not (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allah, but do (precisely) what they are commanded." [Glorious Qur'an 66:6]

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

However, if we do that, we will never learn and never grow. Are you truly advocating that we remain ignorant boobs?

No. You and I have every right to learn, know and grow. However, as I mentioned in my last reply to jin_kazama, there are certain things that you and I are unable to know or understand, simply because our knowledge is so limited.

And Allah knows best.

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Then what is Satan? Surely he is an Angel that disobeyed God?

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Then what is Satan? Surely he is an Angel that disobeyed God?

Satan is a Jinn (creature made of smokeless fire), not an Angel. God Almighty says: "They bowed down except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the Jinns" [Glorious Qur'an 18:50].
Jinns are created from fire whilst Angels are created from light.

And Allah knows best.

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Then what is Satan? Surely he is an Angel that disobeyed God?

You're the only one making sense today, Wolf.

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First off Jin_Kazama, I am glad to see a Tekken Player. Moving on.

Muslim1 - you present us with:

"A person has every right to ask any question. However, there are things that this person can't know."

which only changes the question from "Why does God create the universe" to whose interpretation of God do we believe about this matter?" It's spin. If I reubute this with the very obvious

"Okay, how do we know anything?"
"How do we what we are allowed to know"
"What purpose is there in voiding full disclosure?"

So if I take the time to address this, I am one pase closer to moving away from a very valid question.

the philosophy of "why" (as opposed to "how") we are here is a crucial question which deserves something better than rhetoric.

Why we are here can not be theorized from any text. The universe could exist for no greater reason than "why" glass is clear or "why" I have black trash bags. Neither of which have any cosmic significance.

If there is no purpose given to us cosmically, then it is our job to find a purpose. We live in a universe where our origin is lost in time, and our only image of gods' purpose for us is nothing more than a glamorized campfire story.

Be bold.

Q: "Why are we here?"
A: (say it with me)"I don't know."

As for Atheism or Agostism being a minority, that's laughable. Welcome to the age of reason. It's only going to become more previlant. JK illustrated a very common senario in our society. He lives in a society were he is free to question authority and that included religious authority. If it doesn't make sense and all religion can do is try to invalidate the question, then it fails.

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The Pentacle Queen wrote:

Hey jin! I am a rare one too in that case!
I was a christain, a really strong christain untill i was about 13. and now im an athiest.
I think it takes courage to turn around to your familly and beileve something different.

Good for you... can I ask what was the reason( there are quite a large number) for turning to atheism?

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Sturgis wrote:

jin_kazama wrote:
I have no need of god what so ever. I have no desire to worship him. In fact I don't even believe in a "god" or creator

I'd be more inclined to believe you on this matter if you had not set forth the question. The mere fact that you ask tells me that you have some level of belief or at least curiosity. One who does not believe in God would not have given as telling an opening statement as you did.

jin_kazama wrote:
If god is a perfect being why did he create the universe and everything in it?

I have no belief but others do.... that was the point of the question..... I could ask you about vampires or unicorns but that doesn't me I believe in them in the slightest

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God is perfect, but it's okay for him to create an imperfect universe and living things. Since he's god, he can do no wrong; it's only humans that can do wrong - and pay dearly for it; an eternity in hell.

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Put another chalk mark in that "rare" column, Jin. Born Christian, now atheist.

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The Pentacle Queen wrote:
Hey jin! I am a rare one too in that case!
I was a christain, a really strong christain untill i was about 13. and now im an athiest.
I think it takes courage to turn around to your familly and beileve something different.

jin wrote:
Good for you... can I ask what was the reason( there are quite a large number) for turning to atheism?

ci wrote:
All my siblings and their children are christians. I'm the only one in our family that turned away from any religion, and married a buddhist. Our mother looked unhappy at our wedding, but I betcha I'm much happier than all my siblings combined.

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If god is a perfect being....

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