Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism'

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Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism'

Ms Cox says she lowers her voice on the Tube to avoid confrontation

As a US citizen living in London, Christian Cox says she is shocked at the amount of abuse she receives because of her nationality.

She says the level of anti-Americanism she has experienced "feels like a kind of racism".

"I don't want anyone to feel sorry for Americans, or me, I just want people to realise that we are dealing with hatred too," she says.

Typical British pub banter is one thing, says Christian Cox, but the "pure hatred" she says is directed at her for being American is really starting to wear her down.

The former model moved to London a year ago, where she is setting up her own business, and has been surprised at how some people have reacted to her nationality.

Ms Cox, 29, says she has been called, among other things, "terrorist", "scum", "low life", and feels that she is constantly being held to account for the actions of President Bush and for US foreign policy.

This is despite the fact that she doesn't agree with the war in Iraq and didn't vote for Bush.

I think you are the poorest people I have ever met in my life

American critic

However she adds: "Bush is our leader and I respect that. It's a bit like the way you feel about your father. You don't always agree with him, but you would defend him."

She has travelled widely in other parts of Europe, Mexico, Canada and Australia but says this is the first time her pride in her country has been challenged in such a vitriolic way.

"People would make jokes about Americans but I didn't experience the pure hatred I have had since I came to live here.

"I appreciate that British people often don't understand why I have so much pride, they think it's brainwashing.

"And I do think some people in the US need to be more educated about what's going on in the world.

"But some people just fly off the handle without even talking to me - it's as if they had been waiting to run into an American all day to let their feelings out," she says.

To avoid confrontations she says she lowers her voice on the Underground and in pubs.

But in one incident an older man asked her directly if she was American.

"When I said yes he said: 'I just want you to know that I think you are the poorest people I have ever met in my life' - meaning we were low-life.

"I said I was sorry he felt that way, but that I disagreed."

The man started shouting obscenities at her group. The row developed into a brawl and Ms Cox suffered a black eye as she tried to pull two people apart.

"After that I cried for two days, then booked a flight back to the States. I felt so hated, I needed to be with people who loved me."

Some friends now advise her to tell people she is Canadian, to deflect potential abuse, an option she calls "sad".

'Culture shock'

However it is advice that teacher Francesca Terry, 28, who grew up in Seattle, recognises.

She has lived in London for four years and is married with a daughter.

"I was aware before I moved here that when you travelled abroad it was always better to say you were Canadian if you could get away with it. But we treated it more like a joke."

She was subjected to verbal abuse in the first year or so in Britain, but things calmed down particularly when she had her daughter and stopped going out to pubs so much.

"When I first came here it was part of the culture shock. I felt really naive, I had thought I would go unnoticed here.

"I would go out and I'd just get picked on by people taking pot shots. I just didn't speak when we went out. What shocked me was that people would just say the rudest comments."

But she adds that she has a close group of girlfriends from the US, many of whom say they have not had similar experiences.

She says she is still cautious when she's out and about: "If people ask where I'm from I say 'the States, but the part near Canada'."

"I feel bad about saying that, but it is out of a kind of guilt, I just don't want to get into it with people. When I do, I tell them these are not my choices. I understand my president makes bad decisions, but that's not me."

The US embassy in London declined to comment on the story

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4881474.stm

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Blair: anti-Americanism is madness

Matthew Tempest and agencies
Monday March 27, 2006

Tony Blair today described anti-Americanism across Europe as "madness", although admitted the US could be a "difficult friend to have".

In a speech in the Australian parliament overshadowed by his remarks about making a "mistake" in announcing his retirement early, the prime minister paid tribute to the Australians for joining in the "global struggle" against terror, likening it to their joining the war against the Nazis.

And Mr Blair reminded his audience that he spent three years of his childhood, aged two to five, living in Adelaide, and that the country was the inspiration for his "Britain is a young country" speech early in his premiership.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/foreignaffairs/story/0,,1740612,00.html

Ignorance and arrogance ?. America is the largest, most all consuming capitalistic society on the planet, as we devour roughly 80% of the world's resources, and leave the rest for the other 3.5 billion people on this planet. And in order to maintain our quality of life and style of living, we have to endlessly consume. It keeps our economy roaring along, while our fast food industry creates more fat Americans than ever before. No wonder people around the world hate us for this. We're too big, too arrogant, and our foreign policies are a direct factor in us maintaining our glutinous lifestyle. Our schools can't churn out enough smart people, and therefore we import from countries like India and China for our high end labor force. Our kids get fatter, they play more video games, and are slowly turning into a generation of mindless pigs who cannot get a decent job because they either lack the education or the motivation. We also allowed a puppet government/regime to take over this country and slowly run it into the ground. Now, what does that say about the intelligence of the American voter?

When we see some of the most unbelievable rightwing hate coming from the likes of Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, and so many others, and as millions around the world can hear them as well, then it should come as no surprise why we are hated by so many. We attacked a country that had nothing to do with 9/11, and sit while the presumed perpetrator roams around somewhere north of Pakistan (if that's really where he rumore to be) putting out audio tapes and threatening American interests whenever Bush's poll numbers look like they couldn't go any further South.

It is this transparency of lunacy coming from this country that has perplexed so many around the world. And we throw our military might around with such arrogance and blind hubris, that it's no wonder that many more countries now want the bomb.

This is Bush country. This is where he and his rightwing neocons have taken this country today.

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That's a strange one person experience in Europe - or any place else on this planet. I travel extensively, and have never been belittled for being an American.

The simple fact of the matter is, most Brits I know disagree with the policies of Tony Blair, and those in Australia disagree with their PM. As for the rest of Europe, most people have problems of their own - government and employment.

Most developing countries love Americans, because we spend more and are usually generous when we visit.

Me thinks Ms Cox lives in a very unique area of London.

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BTW, our next door neighbor are transplants from London; both have PhDs, and their children are American citizens (born and being educated here).

Ignorance is universal, but I have a hard time believing the Brits giving Ms Cox such a bad time.

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The British press (although not alone) is known to exaggerate.

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After living in Japan and Australia and meeting a wide variety of nationals along the way, I can say that I have had similar experiences. I've had several occasions of people belittling me in public and also at work (I was a language teacher in Japan) because I'm American. It really shocked me initially. I didn't understand how someone could confuse me, the person, with America, the economic and political force. I actually came into this forum because the title reminded me about what a friend of mine said after a particulalry bad moment: 'It's really a kind of racism, isn't it?' I didn't know how to respond to that then, and I'm not still not sure how to categorize it now.

Because it's not always a negative thing. Sometimes people have tried to treat me a bit nicer when they hear I'm American. This actually bothers me more, in a way. I'm not '#1' cause I'm American, either. I'm just me.

But fortunately, these extremes have been in the minority. Usually I've noticed a bit of apprehension when I first meet someone. Well, maybe not apprehension as much as an added layer you've got to suss out when you meet someone for the first time. For example: In Japan I moved in with two Aussies gals; we became fantastic mates. One told me later that she felt a bit guilty for feeling wary of me before we met (the company only told her my age and nationality prior to move in). And that she'd noticed her friends back home asking her 'How's the American?' instead of 'How are your flatmates?' She was apologizing, in a way. For what? I'm not sure.

Cause I've met plenty of Americans on the road that I wouldn't have wanted to share a cab with, let alone live with. And it's my feeling that if we don't want our reputations to proceed us, we have to stop treating the world like it's our personal playground. Learn the language; respect the customs; stop complaining about how un-like America everywhere else is. I know most reasonable Americans are aware of this. Not everyone does it, sure. But I've met so many that do; it's embarrassing.

I think a change in attitiude from the average Joe American would help diffuse the most combative people from attacking us personally on the streets and in pubs and at work. Now politically, I'd say we're still fair game.

My two cents. . .

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In parts of Asia, it's more than a "little like racism" ... it is racism. The Han have a long history of cultural and social dominance in China, and not to have one of the Thousand Names is to be a barbarian and a lesser being. A traditional Chinese term for any Westerner is "Big Nosed Devil". Korea and Japan both have had homogenous populations for most of their long histories. To be a foreigner in Japan won't get you lynched, or sent to the back of the bus, but you can be made very uncomfortable never-the-less. Cultural politeness and suppression of emotional affects hides a lot of resentment and feelings of superiority by quite a few of these peoples.

Actually, almost every nationality is fundamentally chauvinistic. We ARE the People, you are a barbarian, and he is scarcely human at all. Visible differences in modal ethnic appearance traits just gives the chauvinism/racism inherent in cultural groups a hook on which to hang their prejudices. Its all nonsense of course, but the old ways change sometimes so slowly that no change is even visible.

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Shazzer, I'm Japanese American and know that the Japanese of Japan discriminate against most of their minorities; that's been common knowledge since I was a child. Their discrimination goes far and deep, even within the Japanese people. Their class-conscience discrimination is really the tip of the iceberg - as they say. If a son or daughter wishes to marry somebody, they do background checks on the other family to make sure they belong in the "right" class. Disgusting!

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As previously mentioned in this thread, I am afraid that we have our fair share of ignorant people living in the UK.
I like Americans, I like their "can do" attitude and their philosophy of living life to the full.
However, I was in my local pub recently when a group of young Americans arrived on the scene. They were mainly male (about a dozen of them...office workers by the look of it) and they were out for a good time. Fair enough.....no problem with that.

One thing that everyone noticed straight away, was that they seemed to prefer shouting to talking. Shouting is OK in a noisy pub, but the pub had been quiet up until then, and everyone couldn't help but notice their presence. It wasn't exactly intimidating, more an uncomfortable feeling that inappropriate behaviour was happening in the immediate vicinity.

Now, the Landlord is a man named George. He has owned the pub for over fifteen years (retired policeman) and his family has roots in the local area, stretching back donkey's years. He is now just winding down to proper retirement (he's approaching 70) and spends most of his time sitting down at one end of the bar (on the staff side) talking to the usual two or three old time regulars, while bar staff do most of the serving. On this particular evening, things were quiet and his one staff member was busy doing other things, away from the bar.

Large young American at bar whilst George (who hasn't noticed him at this point) is chatting down at the other end.

"HEY BUDDY, WHAT DOES SOMEONE HAVE TO DO TO GET A DRINK ROUND HERE?"

I don't know about you, but I considered this bloody rude.

Maybe it's just cultural difference, maybe that particular way of addressing a person (an elderly person at that) is the norm in America. It raised some hackles though.

The guy was served and the group settled down for a good evening of shouting at one another. I left shortly after this, but was told the following day that numerous loud choruses of "USA USA USA" were endured, for reasons unknown.

I read somewhere in the papers recently, that there was some form of body in the USA that was just starting to give training to their fellow countrymen, when they are due to go abroad on business. It was all about behavioural differences.

I'll try to find it.

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Bookmarking - interested so far!

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I'm not really surprised about your treatment in Japan, Shazzar. I heard foreigners can really get rough treatment in Japan. And Asherman, Big Nosed Devil? Really? I've never heard that one before. White Devil, certainly, but Big Nosed Devil?

This is interesting. I've met several Americans who don't seem to have been treated badly at all.

Then again, Universities tend to be very tolerant of different cultures, races and so forth.

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My impression is that many Americans travel abroad with an inflated image of their country and themselves. Even in this country how many times do you see Americans screaming that we're the greatest country in the world, Europe owes us for WWI and WWII, the Marshall Plan, ya da ya da ya da.

Your not going to get respect by demanding it for past deeds. You have to earn it everyday. Traveling abroad with a superiority complex by some, not to mention our foreign policies, makes it bad for all. I think it has become worse under Bush as we are seen as more arrogant and hostile.

I'm curious about how Europe feels about England. They have a reputation for violence at soccer, or is it football, games between their teams and other European teams.

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xingu wrote:

My impression is that many Americans travel abroad with an inflated image of their country and themselves. Even in this country how many times do you see Americans screaming that we're the greatest country in the world, Europe owes us for WWI and WWII, the Marshall Plan, ya da ya da ya da.

Don't actually see that, really. I thought it was just a common stereotype used as a joke in sitcoms and the like.

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I'm curious about how Europe feels about England. They have a reputation for violence at soccer, or is it football, games between their teams and other European teams.

They probably feel the same about England as they do about America. Either that or they don't really care.

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xingu wrote:

Even in this country how many times do you see Americans screaming that we're the greatest country in the world, Europe owes us for WWI and WWII, the Marshall Plan, ya da ya da ya da.

Hmmm, Never? Unless you are online, no one talks about the Marshall Plan, world wars,how great the US is, etc and even online, it is the same three people in every forum. Do you really live somewhere where people do this?

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Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

xingu wrote:
My impression is that many Americans travel abroad with an inflated image of their country and themselves. Even in this country how many times do you see Americans screaming that we're the greatest country in the world, Europe owes us for WWI and WWII, the Marshall Plan, ya da ya da ya da.

Don't actually see that, really. I thought it was just a common stereotype used as a joke in sitcoms and the like.

Well I saw it here in America among the conservatives who were angry because some European countries would not support Bush. Remember "freedom fries? Or the disparaging remarks about Spain's courage after the left Iraq? I can't help but to feel this was a message sent to europe and I'm sure it was not well received.

Here's an article I came across.

Quote:

Anti-Americanism versus Anti-Europeanism...
Posted February 2, 2003 04:48 PM.

Presented with limited commentary, two articles about the relationship between Europe and America. One from the Washington Post (Politicians With Guts) that makes the stunning suggestion that a continent of states should make decisions on international politics based upon whether or not they owe the United States a favour for helping out in a war that ended sixty years ago, while simultaneously somehow suggesting that any disagreement with American foreign politics is tantamount to setting-up death-camps:

By using the word "generosity," they even implied that Europeans might now owe the United States a little generosity in return ... Britain's most gifted scholars sift through American writings about Europe searching for signs of derogatory "sexual imagery." In Paris, all the talk is of oil and "imperialism" (and Jews). In Madrid, it's oil, imperialism, past American support for Franco (and Jews).
The other article is from the New York Review of Books (Anti-Europeanism in America) which talks about the stereotypes of the European:

Europeans are wimps. They are weak, petulant, hypocritical, disunited, duplicitous, sometimes anti-Semitic and often anti-American appeasers. In a word: "Euroweenies." Their values and their spines have dissolved in a lukewarm bath of multilateral, transnational, secular, and postmodern fudge. They spend their euros on wine, holidays, and bloated welfare states instead of on defense. Then they jeer from the sidelines while the United States does the hard and dirty business of keeping the world safe for Europeans. Americans, by contrast, are strong, principled defenders of freedom, standing tall in the patriotic service of the world's last truly sovereign nation-state.
And gets to the crux of the issue:

Anti-Americanism and anti-Europeanism are at opposite ends of the political scale. European anti-Americanism is mainly to be found on the left, American anti-Europeanism on the right. The most outspoken American Euro-bashers are neoconservatives using the same sort of combative rhetoric they have habitually deployed against American liberals. In fact, as Jonah Goldberg himself acknowledged to me, "the Europeans" are also a stalking-horse for liberals. So, I asked him, was Bill Clinton a European? "Yes," said Goldberg, "or at least, Clinton thinks like a European."

SOURCE

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Well I saw it here in America among the conservatives who were angry because some European countries would not support Bush. Remember "freedom fries? Or the disparaging remarks about Spain's courage after the left Iraq? I can't help but to feel this was a message sent to europe and I'm sure it was not well received.

You actually saw this in a conversation with regular Joes on the street? If you heard it on some sort of radical talk radio, lump that in with the three idiots who routinely post this stuff on the internet. I'm surrounded by conservatives and no one says this stuff.

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The conservatives I used to work with and who supported Iraq's invasion did say this. This was their belief, Europe owes us from WWII and the Marsahll Plan.

Mind you this may not be coming from the mouths of our leaders but it is coming from the mouths of many conservative Americans.

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The conservatives I used to work with and who supported Iraq's invasion did say this. This was their belief, Europe owes us from WWII and the Marsahll Plan.

Mind you this may not be coming from the mouths of our leaders but it is coming from the mouths of many conservative Americans.

Wow, I live in a pretty red state and I never hear stuff like that. Other than those trying to make political hay, no one hear really cares about "debts" from US actions half a century ago.

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We can find obnoxious people in all cultures that has the means to travel abroad. Unfortunately, I must agree that Americans do have a tendency to talk loud; can't even concentrate on reading my newspaper most mornings at the coffee shop, because some nut wants to shout into their cellphone.

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Re: Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism'

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She says she is still cautious when she's out and about: "If people ask where I'm from I say 'the States, but the part near Canada'."

How exactly does that make it any better? Does Ms. Cox think that Americans who live near the Canadian border are somehow less American than their compatriots? That they're quasi-Canadians owing solely to their geographical proximity to the 49th parallel?

Maybe Ms. Cox isn't being treated rudely because she's an American -- maybe she's being treated rudely because she's a dimwit.

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engineer wrote:

Quote:
The conservatives I used to work with and who supported Iraq's invasion did say this. This was their belief, Europe owes us from WWII and the Marsahll Plan.

Mind you this may not be coming from the mouths of our leaders but it is coming from the mouths of many conservative Americans.

Wow, I live in a pretty red state and I never hear stuff like that. Other than those trying to make political hay, no one hear really cares about "debts" from US actions half a century ago.

I don't know.... During all the dustup about France not being for the Iraq invasion a couple years ago (you remember - some were trying to rename fench fries "freedom fries"?), I heard a lot of right wingers saying things like "Well, they're sure a bunch of ingrates!" and "Remember who pulled their fat out of the fire in WWII!" You remember? It was in those same conversations that a lot of denigrating terms for frenchmen like "frogs" got thrown around. You remember people saying certain Democratic candidates "looked French", or "Acted French"? They weren't compliments....

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Anti-Americanism 'feels like racism'

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