The school question -- again

the school fails in what way?

Teaching?
Safety?
teacher/student ratio?

where does it fall short?

This is what I'm hearing-- My child was uprooted and moved to a new school where, thank God, he's thriving. But I'm unhappy with the neighborhood and so want to uproot him again and move him to a place where, admittedly, the educational opportunities aren't as good (maybe, in the future, really doesn't count).

Maybe that's a harsh interpretation, but it's no worse than the one your child will draw.

Could you get a waiver to keep your child in the current school so you can live in your dream neighborhood and not move the kid again?

On the other hand, there are those that will tell you all about how flexible and adaptable kids are in such situations. Usually, in my experience, they're folks who shuffle their kids around to suit their own convenience.

Test scores mostly. It's a safe school and the teacher/student ratio is fine. There are just fewer "extra" opportunities like those that are abundant in wealthier school districts. The kids there have more challenges too -- 89% eligible for free lunch, 20% non-English speaking. It's not a terrible or even a bad school, it's just not as good as the one he goes to now, which he loves.

blacksmithn, the uprooting is precisely what I would like to avoid. But if we have to do it, I'd rather do it sooner than later. The whole idea is that we want permanence in a neighborhood where the kids will thrive and where we, as a family, will thrive. I would like for my kids to make neighborhood friends and not just school friends (who all live pretty far from us) and friends from scheduled activities. Free play is also very important. We really would like to move only once more (for a house purchase) and then not again until they are both out of high school, or maybe even college, or maybe never.

I can't get a waiver to keep him where he is unless I get a job at the school, which isn't going to happen because that's not my field. That would also defeat the purpose of having a neigborhood school that they could walk to.

The scores aren't that low, honestly. And we already have extra educational opportunities planned -- like music and foreign language -- when they are old enough and we will pay for those from our pockets.

The middle and high schools are the same no matter which elementary school they go to. I'm mostly just concerned that he will have trouble adjusting and having to make all new connections to teachers and other kids. I'm pretty sure he will do well just about anywhere, and most kids from his elementary school go to private middle and high schools, so he wouldn't see them after fifth grade anyway. But that's 5 full years from now. I'm just not sure what we should do.

Hmmm, shewolf, did something happen to your post? I could've sworn you posted.

Could you either wait to move/purchase your new home or keep him in his current school until the end of the school year? It may be easier to transistion over the summer. Seeing he will be out of school for a couple of months, perhaps meeting the new neighbors he will also meet his future classmates and then already have some friends at his new future school.

One other thought - this helped my daughter transistion from pre-school to her new K-6 school. I brought her ahead on a tour of the school. I arranged it with the school administrator. I pointed out all the things in her new school that I knew she would love. She even got to meet her future teacher. Since my daughter is very shy - this gave her a little extra level of comfort.

That's a definite. Even if we don't move until the next school year has already started, we will keep him there until the year is over.



That would be ideal. I do think that it would be the best kind of neighborhood for a little kid and that he would see and appreciate that once we've moved.

FreeDuck--

Remember, kids don't have to make Big Decisions--that's a parental job.

Snob Hill always has advantages--like good schools. Your Snob Hill seems to come with built-in compartmentalization and structured and scheduled days and age stratification....

Buy in the neighborhood. First, you can afford to. Second, you have pedestrian values (in the best sense of pedestrian). Third, lively streets mean secure, supervised kids.

Don't wimp out. Hold your dominion.

I did.

Then i took it down because it didnt seem appropriate, nor was it the advice you were seeking.
I hope I didnt offend ya. ;-)

Thank you so much for that, Noddy. You have really hit the nail on the head. Especially the part about "kids don't have to make Big Decisions". I have to keep reminding myself of that.

Shewolf, you? Offend me? No way. And I'm seeking any and all advice so please, bring it on.

Besides, there's a lot of truth to the idea that test scores don't necessarily determine the quality of the education. And the nice thing about a neighborhood school is that I could be involved in it and have an influence on the quality.

Very true.

As we too are starting to look at schools around the neighborhoods we can afford, they DO seem to all have a few things in common.

1) that a large part of the student body have registered english as a second language.

2) some what lower test scores.

I think the two go hand in hand.

Simply because, as a second language, anything can be hard to master and can effect your test scores even if you KNOW the material.

Im wondering if that has something to do with the results that your school ( or the one you are looking at ) has?

And as I suggested,
if that IS the case, and the school is just not as good as others, there is always a mentor program you can use. Tutors are everywhere as well.

Maybe it isnt the teachers fault. Maybe the school is just a bit over crowded .

Oh, I'm quite sure it's nobody's fault. They have fewer resources than Snob Hill Elementary (thanks Noddy) in that there are fundraisers every other day at Snob Hill and plenty of nearby funds to raise, if you know what I mean. Add to that 89% poverty among the student body at Neighborhood Elementary and you don't even need to add the lack of English to get lower test scores. Kids that start behind tend to stay behind absent herculean efforts. That said, we do have a public pre-k program, which this school participates in, and there is a concerted local effort to improve the quality of public schools here. Additionally, the neighborhood we are looking at is coming up, meaning housing prices are increasing which means that the tax base is increasing. That's why I say that I know the school will get better. I just have this nagging motherly guilt that I'd be removing opportunities.

Whos to say that this up coming school wont have better opportunities?

If they are that far behind, they are going to give some whoppers when it comes to catch up time, and may in fact, offer things that snob hill does not.


I live near a snob hill school as well.
It sort of bothers me that kids have to peddle candy and such all over to keep it a so called snob hill school. >sigh<

I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Bear with me. I have a reason.

What if you move to this great neighborhood with the less-than-great school, and the school DOESN'T improve. What if your child doesn't like the new school or thrive there like he does where he is now? What if your child grows up thinking it doesn't matter if his English is so good, because his friends don't care. What if your child doesn't receive a good enough basic education there to qualify him for the highschools and colleges and jobs you want for him? What if he absorbs a different set of cultural values from the 89%-free-lunch, non-English-speaking kids? Are you prepared for that? Any or all of these could happen.

Don't get me wrong. I want the best for my kid, same as you. I love the idea of a real neighborhood where people know each other and look out for each other. It has real advantages for kids.

The early years of education are SO important, though. I'd have serious reservations about the quality of the school in this neighborhood. And that would be enough for me to look for a transfer/waiver or a private school before buying a house there. I'd let my child have "school friends" and "neighborhood friends" both. Diversity is good.






FYI, our son attended a neighborhood public elementary school that was racially and socially diverse, and was very good academically. However, the neighborhood middle school was not. It has a rough reputation and has been on the state improvement list for the past two years. We moved our son to a private school instead of sending him there. It was the least snooty private school we could find. We're still evaluating highschools, both public and private. Our son now has friends from school, friends from church, friends from extracurricular activities (Boy Scouts, karate, piano lessons) AND neighborhood friends.

We faced some culture-clash issues in the elementary years with my son's friends who were from backgrounds very different from our own. They were good kids, smart kids. But some of them came from homes that didn't value education. Our son's language became much rougher. We wouldn't let him play at some friends' houses because we didn't want him around drugs or Mom's come-and-go boyfriends we didn't trust. I think it was good for our son to learn that not everyone lives the same way. But I'm not so sure they were a good influence. We shall see.

Parents' and teachers' expectations have a lot to do with test scores, and educational success.

On the other hand, if teachers are spending so much time on lagging students, the advanced kids don't get as much attention as they might elsewhere.

On the third hand, my family moved to Texas at the start of my 5th grade. Texas then had mandatory busing. The advanced kids had individual study time and we still managed to get a decent education.






Frankly, I think your expectations will have a greater impact on your kids' education than the test scores of the school.

Plenty of good points there, Eva. I do have serious reservations. That's why I'm here. I appreciate you taking the time to post that.

Private school is not something we can afford right now, and even if we could I'm not sure I would do it. The private elementary schools here all cost roughly 14 grand a year per child, not including uniforms and supplies. Many of them are religious which is something we don't want for our kids.

One of my biggest concerns is one you mention, that other kids there might come from homes where an education is not valued. I don't know how much of that can be overcome by strong signals at home that it IS valued and by parental involvement in school. There are quite a few unknowns in this equation, that's for sure.