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Marines under attack, crying for their lives...

 
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 03:38 pm
snood wrote:
This was a war conceived by Bush, and pushed by Bush, and anyone who can't see that ain't lookin.
You got that right!
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 03:39 pm
The Congress knew as much about the Iraq situation as the President did. Bush didn't lie, he was only shown later to have been mistaken ... as many responsible people throughout the world were. I am not convinced that sending our troops into Iraq was a mistake, though some of the premises on which we acted may have been mistaken.

Some believe that nothing of value has been accomplished in Iraq, but I, and many others, disagree. We have taken the fight to the enemy, and if we stay the course Iraq may become a shining example to the neighboring countries that a country does not need a dictator, either secular or religious. It has not been easy, and end is not in sight yet. This war against those who hate and wish to replace Western materialism and values with Islamic Law more appropriate to the 8th century, is not going to be won between commercial breaks.
0 Replies
 
blacksmithn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 03:54 pm
Oh, please. This is Vietnam Redux, as your rhetoric clearly shows. What's next, light at the end of the tunnel?
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 03:56 pm
Bushie was not mistaken about the Niger report. He was well warned that it lacked credibility. It was an amateurish forgery completely discounted. Bushie used it anyway. Other evidence he used was also discounted. He cherry picked reports that supported his war based agenda and hounded and strongarmed agents reporting things that didn't support that agenda.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 05:08 pm
Asherman wrote:
The Congress knew as much about the Iraq situation as the President did. Bush didn't lie, he was only shown later to have been mistaken ... as many responsible people throughout the world were. I am not convinced that sending our troops into Iraq was a mistake, though some of the premises on which we acted may have been mistaken.

Some believe that nothing of value has been accomplished in Iraq, but I, and many others, disagree. We have taken the fight to the enemy, and if we stay the course Iraq may become a shining example to the neighboring countries that a country does not need a dictator, either secular or religious. It has not been easy, and end is not in sight yet. This war against those who hate and wish to replace Western materialism and values with Islamic Law more appropriate to the 8th century, is not going to be won between commercial breaks.


Asherman, do you ever even briefly entertain the notion that Bush was not being straight - that he had ulterior motives, and had to gin up and cherry pick the intel in order to carry out a foregone decision?
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 05:11 pm
Ex-CIA official says Bush 'cherry-picked' Iraq intelligence


Paul Pillar, who was the national intelligence officer for the Near East and South Asia from 2000 to 2005, delivered the scathing criticism in a lengthy article in the latest issue of the journal Foreign Affairs.


"The administration used intelligence not to inform decision-making, but to justify a decision already made," he wrote.

Pillar alleged the administration of President George W. Bush had ignored warnings that Iraq could easily fall into violence after an invasion to overthrow Saddam Hussein. And the White House asserted that Saddam and Al-Qaeda had forged an alliance without reliable evidence from intelligence agencies.

"Official intelligence on Iraqi weapons programs was flawed, but even with its flaws, it was not what led to the war," Pillar wrote.

Instead, he asserted, the administration "went to war without requesting -- and evidently without being influenced by -- any strategic-level intelligence assessments on any aspect of Iraq."

Pillar said US intelligence agencies' mistakes in assessing whether the Hussein government possessed weapons of mass destruction (WMD) had not driven the administration's decision to invade.

"It has become clear that official intelligence was not relied on in making even the most significant national security decisions, that intelligence was misused publicly to justify decisions already made, that damaging ill will developed between policymakers and intelligence officers, and that the intelligence community's own work was politicized," Pillar wrote.

Considered a leading counter-terrorism analyst, Pillar said the clear message from official intelligence analysis was "to avoid war" because the threat posed by Saddam had been largely contained.

Intelligence agencies had warned that occupying Iraq could trigger attacks on US forces and sectarian conflict and play into the hands of Islamic militants in the region, he wrote.

US analysts had predicted that it was likely "war and occupation would boost political Islam and increase sympathy for terrorists' objectives -- and Iraq would become a magnet for extremists from elsewhere in the Middle East."

Pillar was responsible for coordinating assessments on Iraq from all 15 agencies in the intelligence community. He is now a professor in security studies at Georgetown University.

In his article, he said he believes that the "politicization" of intelligence on Iraq had occurred "subtly" and in many forms, but almost never resulted from a policymaker directly asking an analyst to reshape his or her results.

Instead, Pillar describes a process in which the White House helped frame intelligence results by repeatedly posing questions aimed at bolstering its arguments about Iraq.

The Bush administration, Pillar wrote, "repeatedly called on the intelligence community to uncover more material that would contribute to the case for war," including information on the "supposed connection" between Hussein and Al-Qaeda, which analysts had discounted.

"The greatest discrepancy between the administration's public statements and the intelligence community's judgments concerned not WMD ... but the relationship between Saddam and Al-Qaeda," he wrote.

"The intelligence community never offered any analysis that supported the notion of an alliance between Saddam and Al-Qaeda.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:yChidF6JFWYJ:www.theallineed.com/news/0602/10200028.htm+bush+cherry+picked&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2&ie=UTF-8
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 05:12 pm
Nope. I'm sure he has his prejudices like everyone else, and that his values, give rise to his thoughts and words, which are then translated into action. But no, I have no reason to believe that President Bush has acted out of purely selfish motives.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 05:15 pm
Asherman wrote:
Nope. I'm sure he has his prejudices like everyone else, and that his values, give rise to his thoughts and words, which are then translated into action. But no, I have no reason to believe that President Bush has acted out of purely selfish motives.


Okay, but I didn't say anything about "selfish" - I said "ulterior", as in "other than what was stated".
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 05:37 pm
All right. No, I don't think that President Bush had ulterior motives in forming his policies regarding Iraq.

There were many reasons for forming those policies, though mostly the public only heard one, or two, rationals stated in the most simplistic fashion. Actually, there were many reasons for adopting our policies in re. Iraq, and they were complex, not simple. Sound-bytes are not a good way to judge how well, or ill, a person arrives at a conclusion.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Apr, 2006 05:41 pm
Exclusive: Bush Wanted To Invade Iraq If Elected in 2000 http://www.gnn.tv/articles/article.php?id=761
0 Replies
 
 

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