1
   

Italian elections

 
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 12:19 pm
Interesting.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 03:11 pm
Oooh, now it's getting nasty.

Quote:
ROME (Reuters) - Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi on Wednesday denounced Italy's general election as fraudulent and said official results giving victory to his centre-left rival Romano Prodi had to be overturned.

Berlusconi has refused to concede defeat in the April 9-10 vote, and demanded a review of thousands of disputed ballots.

"The election result has to change because there was widespread fraud," Berlusconi told reporters after meeting President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi on Wednesday evening.

"Did you think you were about to be free of me?" he said, adding that the voting irregularities had been at the expense of his centre-right alliance.

But Prodi, attending a victory celebration in his home city of Bologna, in northern Italy, dismissed the allegation.

"We have won ... Berlusconi has to go," Prodi said.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 03:30 pm
The plot thickens.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 03:46 pm
. . . and threatens to boil over . . .
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 03:51 pm
Quote:
Article published Apr 12, 2006
Analysis: Italy-U.S. Ties Likely to Change

For most Americans, Italy will still be the country of luxury wear, good food and fine wine.

But a new center-left government led by Romano Prodi could bring changes in Italy's relationship with the United States, including a return to the "old Europe" that opposed the war in Iraq and has worries about what it considers Washington's aggressive foreign policy.

Ties with the United States could face their first trial when Prodi is asked to push for the arrest and extradition of 22 purported CIA agents who have been accused by an Italian prosecutor of kidnapping an Egyptian cleric from Milan as a suspected terrorist.

Italy has been a close ally of the United States since the Cold War, playing a leading role in NATO over protests from the Italian Communist Party, the largest Marxist movement in the West.

The country accepted U.S.-built nuclear missiles in Sicily to counter a Soviet missile buildup in the mid-1980s. During the air war over Kosovo in 1999, NATO planes staged air strikes on Yugoslavia from Aviano air base in Italy.

But conservative Premier Silvio Berlusconi raised the relationship to a new level after taking office in 2001, calling President Bush "my friend," breaking with France and Germany by supporting the invasion of Iraq and sending 3,000 soldiers there after the fall of Saddam Hussein.

Now, Prodi, a staunch critic of the Iraq war, is set to become Italy's next premier after official results showed his center-left coalition won national elections earlier this week, although Berlusconi has demanded a recount and refused to concede.

Prodi's platform and public statements make clear he intends to focus on closer relations with other European countries and work for a joint European Union foreign policy, saying only the bloc as a whole can counterbalance American power.

Talking Wednesday with foreign journalists, Prodi used the word "Europe" repeatedly when asked how his government would deal with China, Iran and the Balkans.

He said in a major foreign policy address last year that Washington should recognize a "more united Europe is not a challenge or a threat to American power, but a crucial ally in the management of global problems."

As for Iraq, he said there was really no difference between his and Berlusconi's policies, since his rival "had come around" and begun withdrawing troops, with all to be out by the end of the year.

Speaking to supporters in his hometown of Bologna on Wednesday evening, Prodi said his Cabinet would discuss the pullout timetable when it first meets, "because we did not want this war," according to Italian news agencies.

Prodi said this week that he wants a "constructive" relationship with Washington, but also has said that serving as a "junior partner" to the U.S. is not good policy.

"Something is destined to change," said Germano Dottori, an analyst at Rome's Center for Strategic Studies. "The idea is to make the EU a leading player in international politics and this automatically includes a project to reduce American hegemony."

The first test could be over the alleged CIA kidnapping of a radical Egyptian cleric from a Milan street in 2003, an operation believed to be part of an "extraordinary rendition" strategy to transfer terrorism suspects to third countries where some allegedly are subject to torture. European human rights groups have assailed the practice.

On Wednesday, prosecutor Armando Spataro said he would ask Italy's new government to send an extradition request to the United States for the 22 purported CIA agents after the Justice Ministry under Berlusconi refused to do so.

Spataro said in a statement he was convinced his request "will obtain a different decision from the next justice minister."

Few were surprised at the refusal by Berlusconi's justice minister, Roberto Castelli, who previously called Spataro "anti-American."

Alluding to the acquittal of several terrorism suspects, Castelli said in a statement to the Italian news agency ANSA on Wednesday that he did not want to signal Washington that Italy "frees terrorists acquitted by magistrates while worrying about arresting those hunting terrorists."

Prodi declined to give his position on the case. "Honestly, I didn't put my mind to that," he told the foreign journalists.

But he hinted at the potential for a cooling of relations with Washington.

In response to a question about whether heads of state had called him to congratulate him, Prodi said that he had received congratulatory calls from French President Jacques Chirac and other world leaders, but he had not heard from Bush.
Source
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 04:03 pm
That all makes sense to me..
0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 06:07 pm
I could finally make a quick plunge into the results and they were pretty interesting.

13 parties were on the Prodi coalition; 12 on Berlusconi's.
The smallest of the pro-Prodi parties, the Venetian Front League got 22,010 votes. Voilá la difference, if you want to see it that way.

On the Senate, there were two keys for the majority of the Prodi coalition: one is the Sudtiroler Volkspartei. The party of German speaking Italians, the SVP, had a very strong showing in it's region (Bozen), capturing nearly 60% of the votes there, and whiping the Italian speaking Neofascists of Alleanza Nazionale.
The other key were the Italians abroad: that independent seat they took away from Berlusca was something!
0 Replies
 
Raphillon
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 04:27 am
Hi all. Thanks to ossobuco for bringing this thread to my attention.

It is very interesting to see your point of view from my "insider" angle Smile

Prodi will not break the alliance with USA, this is really impossible. It is possible that USA will find Prodi's government to be a little less compliant for future initiative, but the relationship between the two country will not become "cool", rather "less warm", I think.

The very big problem is another. With the collected votes Prodi will not be able to govern if not for a very short time, I'm becoming a little worried for the future of my country, I'm afraid the last word has still to be spoken.

What really scares me is that everybody around me keep saying they voted against Berlusconi, not a single one said he voted for him, since I have to believe in regular election I have to say that my friends and relatives are telling me lots of lies or that Berlusconi took all his votes from people I don't know.... I am puzzled and really worried, I don't know what is about to happen but I suspect we will be soon called back to vote.

And I cannot believe half my fellow countrymen still voted for Berlusconi after all he did in 5 years of bad government Crying or Very sad
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 05:48 am
Thanks, Raphillon - good to hear a true Italian voice here as well!





Berlusconi-did-you-think-you'd-got-rid-of-me:
"(There was) so much vote-rigging, I am confident the result must change," Berlusconi, whose House of Freedoms bloc lost the election to Romano Prodi's Union coalition by a tiny margin, told reporters late Wednesday in Rome.

"The rigging was all in one direction, it was absolutely not evenly spread," he said.

"We have to check the records of 60,000 polling stations, one by one. The result must change because there was too much fraud in several parts of Italy."


Quote:
Berlusconi allies cast doubt on his fraud claim
Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:19 PM BST

By Crispian Balmer

ROME (Reuters) - Allies of Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi cast doubt on Thursday over his accusations that the Italian general election was rigged and one coalition partner said a review of the ballot would not change the result.

Berlusconi has demanded that the outcome of the April 9-10 vote, which handed his centre-left rival Romano Prodi a tiny majority, should be overturned because of "widespread" fraud.

Prodi has said he won the election fairly, but newspapers reported on Thursday that Berlusconi might seek a recount of more than one million votes.

Uncertainty over the political situation has hurt Italian bonds and depressed the Milan stock market.

Looking to calm the tensions, some senior centre-right allies said they saw nothing especially untoward about the election, which was the closest in modern Italian history.

"(Vote) checks have always been made, but I don't think they will change the result of this election," said Lorenzo Cesa, head of the centrist Union of Christian Democrats (UDC), one of the four core parties in Berlusconi's coalition.

Ignazio La Russa, a leading figure in the conservative National Alliance party, also distanced himself from accusations of deliberate wrong-doing.

"I have no news of fraud. I have heard of serious irregularities but that isn't a novelty. They happen in every election," La Russa told Radio Popolare, adding, however, that Berlusconi should never be underestimated.

GROWING PROBLEM

According to Interior Ministry data, the centre left won the election for the lower house of parliament by just 25,000 votes out of 38.1 million ballots cast.

Berlusconi has refused to concede defeat, and earlier this week demanded a review of 43,000 officially disputed ballots not included in the final tally because of alleged errors over the way they were filled out.

On Wednesday, he suggested the problem might be much bigger, saying "60,000 statements" of possible irregularities across Italy had to be checked "one by one".

Under Italian law only votes officially registered as disputed can be reviewed immediately after an election, but Berlusconi could issue a decree to widen the scrutiny. This would have to be approved by President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi.

The increasingly bitter stand-off tempted comparisons with the 2000 U.S. presidential election, when victory was handed to George W. Bush following a recount battle in Florida.

"At this point it is difficult not to fear a sort of Italian-style Florida. A long, destabilising confrontation over the regularity of more than one million votes," Corriere della Sera newspaper wrote.

Centre-left leaders have accused Berlusconi of stoking dangerous political tensions.

"Berlusconi, stop poisoning Italy and delegitimising the Italians' vote," Piero Fassino, head of the biggest leftist party, the Democrats of the Left, said late on Wednesday.

UNPOPULAR

The Interior Ministry which oversaw the election said just over a million votes had not been included in the final tally because they had been left blank or defaced. This was 60 percent fewer than the number of void votes in the 2001 election.

Asked on Thursday if he had evidence of vote fraud, Interior Minister Giuseppe Pisanu said: "No comment".

Routine checks on the 43,000 disputed ballots are being carried out by judicial authorities and are expected to be completed by Friday. The prime minister said the review he had in mind would take "several days" to complete.

The Milan bourse bluechip index was down 0.4 percent by 1130 GMT while the yield spread, or risk premium, between 10-year Italian and German bonds touched a four-year high as worries of protracted policy paralysis in Italy weighed on its debt.

Even without accusations of fraud, Italy faces at least a month of limbo before a new government can be sworn in because of constitutional delays tied to the forthcoming election of a new president, who has to oversee the transition period.
Source
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 10:56 am
Quote:
Adherents of Silvio Berlusconi Don't Share Position of Their Leader

13 April 2006 | 19:21 | FOCUS News Agency


Rome. Representatives of right wing coalition of the Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi don't share the opinion of their leader that the repetitive counting of ballots could influence an effect on the results from the general elections, according to which the coalition of Romano Prodi is the winner, Europa Press reports. According to members of the coalition of Berlusconi the repetitive counting was something normal in a democratic state although it probably will not change the results.
Source
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 12:43 pm
Raphillon wrote:
What really scares me is that everybody around me keep saying they voted against Berlusconi, not a single one said he voted for him, since I have to believe in regular election I have to say that my friends and relatives are telling me lots of lies or that Berlusconi took all his votes from people I don't know....

Hmmm ... perhaps Dutch society is very segregated (between various subcultures), but that is pretty normal for me. I dont know anyone, except for some uncles and cousins, who voted for the right-wing parties in Holland. None of my friends or former colleagues do; the two or three that used to vote for the right-wing liberals have switched to the centre-left as well. Yet those right-wing parties did receive a majority in both 2002 and 2003.

In fact, last time I roughly estimated what my friends and colleagues voted, I came to half to two-thirds of them voting Green Left - which gets some 6% of the vote nationally. It's odd how social circles kinda tend to crystallise out by political lines as well, even if you actually hardly ever talk politics.

I think its different here (in Hungary) though. You cant tell from how someone looks or talks or where he's from or what he does, what party he will vote. Or at least I cant. In Holland I often can guess.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 12:53 pm
In the Guardian, Martin Kettle goes over the edge and likens Berlusconi's demands for a recount to a fascist coup d'etat. Shocked

He is rightly slammed for being over the top, and probably inconsistent, by the readers in comments below.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 12:57 pm
Quote:
Europe News
Berlusconi isolated over \'election fraud\' claim (Roundup)
By DPA
Apr 13, 2006, 19:00 GMT



Rome - Silvio Berlusconi\'s allies on Thursday refused to endorse his claim that Italy\'s general election had been rigged, with one saying he did not expect a vote recount to change the result and another acknowledging that the centre-left had won.

\'No one ever spoke of fraud, only of irregularities in the counting process,\' said Carlo Giovanardi, a cabinet minister in Berlusconi\'s outgoing administration and a member of the Union of Christian Democrats (UDC).

Giovanardi\'s party leader, Lorenzo Cesa, went one step further, saying he did not believe the recount of disputed ballots would change the outcome of the election.

Berlusconi\'s biggest coalition partner, the National Alliance, also distanced itself from the premier by saying it had \'no information regarding any election fraud, while a third ally, the Northern League, said it was Romano Prodi\'s \'right and duty\' to govern.

\'The left has won, so it has not only the right, but also the duty to govern,\' said Roberto Maroni of the Northern League.

The statements left Berlusconi isolated as he battled for survival in the aftermath of his narrow election defeat.

Speaking to reporters late Wednesday, the premier had alleged that \'widespread electoral fraud\' risked invalidating the vote.

\'There was so much vote-rigging, I am confident the result must change,\' Berlusconi said.

\'Did you think you\'d got rid of me?\' he told reporters.

Berlusconi later backtracked, but not before being lambasted by centre-left leaders.

\'I assure you that there is no doubt about our victory. And there is no point in (Berlusconi) inventing excuses or delays, he must go home,\' Romano Prodi was quoted by newspapers as telling a rally of his centre-left supporters in Bologna.

Piero Fassino of the Left Democrats, Italy\'s largest left-wing party, said Berlusconi was \'poisoning Italy\' by refusing to accept the legitimate result of the election while independent commentators accused the outgoing premier of playing a dangerous game.

Writing in the influential Corriere della Sera, Massimo Franchi said Berlusconi appeared \'determined to overturn the result of the elections.\'

The premier\'s claim have plunged Italy into political chaos and have made international markets jittery.

The April 9-10 election was the closely-fought ever in Italian history, with Prodi\'s centre-left Union prevailing over Berlusconi\'s House of Freedoms by just 25,000 votes - or 0.6 per cent of the about 38 million cast - in the Chamber of Deputies, the lower branch of parliament.

About 43,000 disputed ballots were currently in the process of being checked by judges, but past experience suggests those that will actually end up being assigned will be spread more or less equally among the two opposition coalition.

Berlusconi, who is still refusing to concede defeat, insists a total of 1.1 million voided ballots also need checking.

But under Italian law, only disputed ballots - that is, ballots contested by representatives of opposing parties present in polling station - can be reviewed.

Parliament is due to be convened for the first time on April 28, with a new Prodi government expected to be sworn into office some time in May.


© 2006 dpa - Deutsche Presse-Agentur
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 12:59 pm
Hehe - I posted that 3 mins before it was actually out Laughing
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 01:20 pm
Thanks, Walter.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Apr, 2006 03:19 pm
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41553000/gif/_41553996_italy_vote_416x234.gif
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 08:15 am
Well:

Quote:
But after four days of political stalemate, the Interior Ministry said the number of ballots in question for the lower house of parliament was 2,131, not enough to overturn Prodi's 24,000-vote majority.

The ministry said in a statement it had made a mistake when it initially estimated there were 43,028 disputed ballots.


Quote:
Berlusconi's power fades away

Fri Apr 14, 2006
By Robin Pomeroy

ROME (Reuters) - Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's hopes of overturning his election loss were dashed on Friday when it emerged there were not enough disputed ballot papers to swing victory back from his rival, Romano Prodi.

Berlusconi refused to concede after the centre-left opposition won a razor-thin majority in the April 9-10 election, demanding a check of "disputed" ballots -- papers on which the voting intention was deemed unclear by scrutineers.

But after four days of political stalemate, the Interior Ministry said the number of ballots in question for the lower house of parliament was 2,131, not enough to overturn Prodi's 24,000-vote majority.

The ministry said in a statement it had made a mistake when it initially estimated there were 43,028 disputed ballots.

"It seems that we have won the election," said a spokesman for Prodi, who had declared his victory to a crowd of cheering supporters in the early hours of Tuesday. "Two thousand (ballots) can't change the result."

The centre-left spokesman said the next step would be an official confirmation of the election results by the Court of Cassation, Italy's highest court for legal appeals.

That is not expected to come before next week at the earliest, a court official said earlier on Friday.

OTHER APPEALS?

The prime minister's press office declined comment on the Interior Ministry statement, but pointed out that all the election data were still only "preliminary" ahead of the official court confirmation.

Berlusconi said on Wednesday the result "must change" due to what he termed "widespread fraud" but most of his allies have shown no taste for a recount.

Nonetheless, some hard-core supporters maintained hope that the tenacious media tycoon could somehow prevail.

Mirko Tremaglia, the minister for Italians abroad, said Italy should re-run the election among overseas voters -- whose support enabled Prodi to take a narrow victory in the upper house -- because 10 percent had not received ballot papers.

Prodi, meanwhile, who has been seen smiling and relaxed in his northern home town of Bologna, has received calls from foreign leaders, including those of France and Germany, congratulating him on his victory.

Even before the official announcement on the small number of contested ballots, Prodi was confident. "As was obvious, the review (of the ballot) hasn't made any difference. The victory is confirmed," he said earlier on Friday.

Berlusconi has suggested that, given the closeness of the result, Italy's sharply divided left and right should form a "grand coalition" -- something the centre left has rejected outright, arguing it had the mandate to govern on its own.

Although it won by a handful of votes, a recent change to the electoral law introduced by Berlusconi means Prodi will have almost 70 more seats than the centre right in the 630-seat lower chamber. In the Senate, Prodi has just a two-seat majority.

"We had a radical clash over policy programmes, a pact now would be incomprehensible for the citizens," said Massimo D'Alema, a leader of the Democrats of the Left party. "There can be no coup de theatre, no rabbit pulled out of a hat."

© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 09:29 am
The fat lady is humming.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Apr, 2006 11:51 am
Hummmmmmmmmmm...
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Apr, 2006 06:51 am
Quote:
Berlusconi defiant as Italy awaits final word

15/04/2006

Italian premier Silvio Berlusconi today remained defiant in his refusal to concede defeat to centre-left rival Romano Prodi as Italians awaited the official results of a count of contested ballots in close-fought parliamentary elections.

"At least on the basis of the popular vote, there's no winner and no loser," Berlusconi wrote in a letter published today in top Italian daily newspaper Corriere della Sera.

Hours earlier, the premier had said he still had hope he would be declared the winner, as long as the count of contested ballots continued.

But the count seemed certain to confirm Prodi's narrow victory, after electoral officials sharply reduced the number of contested ballots.

The official result would formally end days of political stalemate since the elections on Sunday and Monday. Prodi's centre-left won a razor-thin majority in both houses of parliament, but Berlusconi alleged irregularities and demanded thorough checks.

On Friday, the Interior Ministry drastically reduced the number of contested ballots from 80,000 down to 5,200, dashing Berlusconi's hopes of retaining power. The new figures were not enough for the premier's conservatives to reverse the electoral result, even with a gap as narrow as the one dividing the two coalitions.

The ministry said the confusion was caused by officials including null or blank ballots in the number of contested ballots by mistake.

Prodi again urged the premier to concede.

"He must acknowledge how things went, and, I believe, apologise as well after what he said about fraud," Prodi told reporters today in Bologna.

Berlusconi said earlier this week that there had been fraud in the elections, but quickly backed away from his comments.

Still, he has insisted that the routine count of contested ballots is not enough and has demanded a check of voting reports from virtually every polling station in Italy. He has also alleged irregularities in the vote of Italians abroad.

But by law, only contested ballots can be checked immediately after an election. All other complaints regarding blank, null or otherwise irregular ballots must be taken up by parliamentary commissions set up by the new parliament.

Once checks on the contested ballots are completed, a top Italian court, the Court of Cassation, certifies the election result. It was not clear when the court's confirmation would come.

In his letter published today, Berlusconi also renewed an appeal he made to the opposition to create a coalition government, saying "a partial agreement, limited in time and aimed at dealing with the country's institutional, economic and international commitments should not be ruled out in principle".

He raised the possibility of a "grand coalition" earlier this week, but Prodi and other centre-left leaders quickly rejected the proposal. Prodi would not need Berlusconi's party to form a government, even if his majority of elected senators in the upper house of parliament is only two.

Even centre-right politicians have expressed scepticism over Berlusconi's stance, with some saying they opposed any agreement with the centre-left and others urging him to concede defeat.

"It seems to me that the idea of not recognising the result is losing strength by the hour," said Franco Pavoncello, a political science professor at John Cabot University.

But the premier, Pavoncello said, was looking ahead.

"Berlusconi is trying to cut a political role for himself and his centre-right coalition for after the election," he said.

Even once the results are confirmed, it could still be weeks before Prodi takes office.

It is up the president to give him a mandate to form a government. However, the president's term ends in mid-May, and the current president, Carlo Azeglio Ciampi, has said he would leave the decision up to his successor. Parliament has until May 13 to elect a new president.
Source
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Italian elections
  3. » Page 5
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/05/2024 at 06:33:52