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DOWN TO THE SEA IN SHIPS--THE ARMADA

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 06:07 am
I am embarrassed to admit that all the research i have since done on HMS Revenge is either silent on the ship class, or agrees that she was a galleon.

Oh well . . .
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dadpad
 
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Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 06:31 am
where does Hornblower fit in to all this? or s he another "Robin Hood" type legend.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 09:04 am
I believe it is safe to say that Horatio Hornblower is an entirely fictive character. The stories are nevertheless entertaining and well-written. Hornblower, however, is placed in the period the Napoleonic Wars, the heyday of English naval might. That was more than two centuries after the Armada.
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farmerman
 
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Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 10:52 am
While Snows and frigates, according to Hakluyt and Grant, owe their designs to two masted vessels introduced well before 1650.I found the earliest drawing of a ship labeled a Snow from 1700 (2 masted, square rigged, but with no trysail) It should have a trysail on a separate mast with a fore and aft sail, just like a mizzen.
Im sure the evolution of all these designs are open to terminology appropriate to any particular time.
The original name "Snow"had nothing to do with the sails , nor, I suppose therefore the frigate , with the flat "no castle" gun deck.
The Snow was originally named as a class of early 17th century "Round" ships, the biggest 2 masters with a "snausnout", which was a curved brace support for the jib boom. "Elements in Practice of Rigging (Steele 1800 2nd ed) is a classic for the nuance of these ships and their development.
The snausnout was pretty much adapted for most all subsequent design , due to its strength in shear . The only ships I didnt see it employed were in the early French versions of the schooners "The goelette"

I avoided Hornblower books as a kid but had only recently seen the series on A&E , on SUnday mornings. A great series , Im hooked and,Im a kid again.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 11:29 am
Many sources with which i am familiar contend that the snow was the ancestor of the brig. The brig is two-masted, square-rigged on the mainmast, and square-rigged aloft on the mizzen, and rigged fore-and-aft below on the mizzen. The dubious image which i posted earlier from Wikipedia as the earliest image of a frigate which i had found could just as likely portray a snow. Alas, although i may contend that the ancestors of the snow and frigate were in use at the time of the Amada, i feel i must abandon a contention that actual snows and frigates existed then.

Hornblower i am less familiar with than with Patrick O'Brian's novels--often commonly referred to as the "Master and Commander" series. I'm not certain, but i believe that Master and Commander is the first novel--if not, it is surely the second. It recounts Jack Aubrey's first command, a sloop, and his introduction to the surgeon Maturin. I doubt not that you are familiar with the series, but if not, i highly recommend them. Although he constantly plays fast and loose with historical truth, O'Brian is simply exercising poetic license--he does no violence to the detail of the periods he portrays, and researches his works exhaustively.

For example, The Far Side of the World is loosely (very loosely) based upon the pursuit of Essex in the Pacific by Phoebe, 36, and her consort, Cherub, 18 (a sloop of war). But O'Brian changes the names of the ship, and makes Aubrey and Surprise the pursuers. In reality, Essex was trapped on a lee shore near Valparaiso by Phoebe and Cherub, and was pounded unmercifully by their long guns, and unable to reply as she mounted carronades. More than 50 men were killed, which was extraordinary in the terms of the day. We know a good deal about Essex as David Farragut, the American Civil War naval hero, sailed from Boston in Essex in 1812 as a ship's boy with a view to becoming a midshipman.

I won't tell how O'Brian alters the tale, as it's a good read, and i don't wish to spoil it for anyone. The motion picture changes the details yet again.
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farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 01:57 pm
Im only familiar with the "Captain and Commander" movie, which I ate up. I love good sailing sagas. The photography was great and the story kept moving nicely.

The Hornblower series is, I believe, a Beeb production , and as such , spends more time on developing some more detail than an action movie would.


FYI, the old Whitbred "around the world" race(Now the Volvo race) is stopping in Miami by Easter and then Baltimore on April 27 through May 4. These are the bigass "J" boat class single masted schooners .
The baltimore Inner Harbour will be loaded with tall ships as a tribute and celebration. I, of course will miss it because Ill be in f***in SA again.
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Setanta
 
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Reply Wed 12 Apr, 2006 03:17 pm
You need to check out Patrick O'Brian online. There are about twenty or more books--they'll keep you busy for a long time.
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