What is truth?

Aaah fresco... It's ok. I can wait. Smile

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That "waiting I" might need to take a packed lunch !

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hephzibah wrote:

Ok, I have a question for anyone who would care to answer. Think about this before you answer though.

What do you see when you look in the mirror?

Meaning what kind of person are you? How do you view yourself?

Any takers?

I see the face of God.

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neologist wrote:

Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

Seriously, is there not an aspect of truth which governs our daily activities?

And what precisely is this supposed to mean?
See the ten spot story I posted a few pages back. I'm not about to get whacked again.

So because scenarios that involve true propositions such as illustrated in your 'ten spot' example happen, they by extension govern our activities? What about false propositions? they happen too. I don't see how your statement is meaningful outside of rhetorical value.

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That is an interesting question Fizz. But not original.

Oh wad some power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!
It wad frae monie a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion.
-- Robert Burns

and if Fresco can tranlate that would be even better.

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Truth always is

there is never a time when truth was not

truth is what cannot be refuted and what is eternal

the statement 'i am 2 years old' is not truth it is a fact

the statement 'God exists' is true because God is eternal

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raheel wrote:

the statement 'i am 2 years old' is not truth it is a fact

well you certainly argue like a two year old raheel. Has it never occured to you that just simply saying something is true doesnt necessarily make it so? Has it never occured to you that what you (or I) believe to be true can be demonstrated to be false. I think it was Fresco or Satt who said truth is consistancy. Keep pushing the boundaries. Keep enquiring keep experimenting and thinking, thats how we get nearer to Truth. What infuriates me about religionists, and frankly muslims seem to be the worst example of this, is that you dont enquire. You dont search or question or think. You have all the answers so you BELIEVE in one book, a book which closes more minds every time its opened imo.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

What infuriates me about religionists, and frankly muslims seem to be the worst example of this, is that you dont enquire. You dont search or question or think.

Well, the openly Islamic Muslims that visit this board anyway. I used to know a Muslim that enquired about his beliefs. Why was it wrong to drink alcohol? He drunk alcohol and found out for himself firsthand, then stopped, to never drink it again. Of course, he drew the line when it came to sexuality and the more condemnable sins like murder.

Raheel, how can you, without turning to the Koran and without turning to any religious text, prove that God exists eternally? Come now. Religious texts are only one source of evidence. You need to find more sources of evidence in order to backup the first source.

Frankly, I think all of this "What is truth?" malarkey should be in the Philosophy section, rather than the Spiritual. There, we can at least get some intelligent discussion instead of spiritual nonsense (and when I say spiritual nonsense, I refer to gobbledy-gook that hasn't been thought out properly and in the end doesn't mean anything).

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fresco wrote:

That "waiting I" might need to take a packed lunch !

LOL Sorry fresco, it was almost 3am and I thought I said, "Ahh Fresco... It's ok. I can wait. Good night." Confused

Quote:

Sorry you wanted an answer in terms of loving, confident etc.....I can be all those things and their opposites.....depending on social circumstance.
There may be an "average" but there is no consistency.

Fresco, you are complicating this. You are thinking entirely to philosophically. Ok, think just a little deeper than that. What are the founding characteristics that make up you?

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Doktor S wrote:

hephzibah wrote:
Ok, I have a question for anyone who would care to answer. Think about this before you answer though.

What do you see when you look in the mirror?

Meaning what kind of person are you? How do you view yourself?

Any takers?

I see the face of God.

Ahem.... Dok, are you around? I think I could use this answer.

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Doktor S wrote:

neologist wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

Seriously, is there not an aspect of truth which governs our daily activities?

And what precisely is this supposed to mean?
See the ten spot story I posted a few pages back. I'm not about to get whacked again.

So because scenarios that involve true propositions such as illustrated in your 'ten spot' example happen, they by extension govern our activities? What about false propositions? they happen too. I don't see how your statement is meaningful outside of rhetorical value.

This wasn't meant to be profound. But is it not true that we live our lives mostly in the concrete rather than the abstract?

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hephzibah,

I assure you I do not seek to avoid your "mirror question" or to complicate it. I (it) really does not have a sense of a unified self. It looks at its face in the mirror, it notices its little outbursts of temper, its procrastination over minor tasks and duties, its pursuit of intellectual communication, its appreciation of flattery, its occasional dishonesty etc etc and all without much in the way of value judgements.

I presume your question is related to the concept of "truth" but I am trying to work out what looking in the mirror would reveal other than the physical.
I don't know what you mean by "founding characteristics" other than genes and social conditioning. If you are seeking an answer in terms of "the divine" or "spirituality" I would argue that the first is illusary and the second is a mental state associated with transcendence of the ego. Since I understand such transcendence I may have experienced the "spiritual" but this very discussion of it means it remains an intellectual curiosity rather than a "truth". Those who would embrace this a "truth" need say nothing.

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Whew... I can see those gears in your head smokin... LOL

Ok, let's switch gears here. I only have a few more minutes then I have to run for awhile. However, let me ask you this. Dok said that he looks in the mirror and sees the face of God. If you looked at him in person, do you think that is what you would see?

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hephzibah,

I take the Dok's remark to be the ironical observation that "man made God in his own image".

If I looked at the Dok I would no doubt be seeking signs of his satanic leanings....the hypnotic eye....the cryptic tattoo...etc! I might be disappointed if he didn't come up to expectations. Cool

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hephzibah wrote:

Whew... I can see those gears in your head smokin... LOL

this girl just cracks me up

Fresco good to have you on a2k. Were you at UMIST perchance?

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Steve,

...Leicester and Essex ( sounds like a part from Henry V)

Seagoon: Now tell me the truth, why were you sleeping on the piano in the garden?

Willium: 'cos the grass was damp mate! And, er, I don't wanna get the nadgers again ya see! My wife's got the lurgi, and my eldest boy's got the plin mate, on 'is legs!

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fresco wrote:

hephzibah,

I take the Dok's remark to be the ironical observation that "man made God in his own image".

If I looked at the Dok I would no doubt be seeking signs of his satanic leanings....the hypnotic eye....the cryptic tattoo...etc! I might be disappointed if he didn't come up to expectations.

Fresco while I can appreciate the perspective you hold here I need you to do me a favor.

Please...

Put aside the philosophy for just a minute and answer a simple yes or no question.

Dok said that he looks in the mirror and sees the face of God. If you looked at him in person, do you think that is what you would see?

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

hephzibah wrote:
Whew... I can see those gears in your head smokin... LOL
this girl just cracks me up

Fresco good to have you on a2k. Were you at UMIST perchance?

Hehehe...

Just kiddin. I just like to pick on people. I hope no one takes me too seriously. :wink:

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hephzibah,

As an atheist I answer "I don't know what you mean by your question". "God" is a "concept" with which I have no relationship or a a negative relationship. It is equivalent to a neurosis which affects others whose affectations occasionally impinge on me.

If you are seeking a chain of reasoning which goes something like: my perception of life implies the "truth of a creator" I would tell you this. The work of Prigogine on the demonstration of "spontaneous structure" in dynamic chemical reactions has now removed the necessity of "a prime mover" as far as what we call "life" is concerned.

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neologist wrote:

Doktor S wrote:
neologist wrote:
Doktor S wrote:
Quote:

Seriously, is there not an aspect of truth which governs our daily activities?

And what precisely is this supposed to mean?
See the ten spot story I posted a few pages back. I'm not about to get whacked again.

So because scenarios that involve true propositions such as illustrated in your 'ten spot' example happen, they by extension govern our activities? What about false propositions? they happen too. I don't see how your statement is meaningful outside of rhetorical value.
This wasn't meant to be profound. But is it not true that we live our lives mostly in the concrete rather than the abstract?

Some of us more than others.
And that, my good Neo, is certainly not an insult to you.
Although you seem to like to wander through the esoteric, you seem to keep your feet, at least for communication purposes, squarely on tera-firma.
I like that about you.

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