What is truth?

Hi fresco.

fresco wrote:

hephzibah,

I take the Dok's remark to be the ironical observation that "man made God in his own image".

Actually I meant that comment as a sort of double edged sword. As to the popular image of the externalized 'father figure' god that most accept, yes, your interpretation is bang on. Man creates this god through anthropomorphization.
On the other side of the spectrum, however, I meant it quite literally.
My conception of 'god' is autotheistic, I see 'god' as an individual psychological function within each of us, a trait arrived at through natural selection.

Quote:

If I looked at the Dok I would no doubt be seeking signs of his satanic leanings....the hypnotic eye....the cryptic tattoo...etc! I might be disappointed if he didn't come up to expectations.

Heh...actually.
I do possess the latter. Going in for another one next month!

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I like you too, dok

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fresco wrote:

hephzibah,

As an atheist I answer "I don't know what you mean by your question". "God" is a "concept" with which I have no relationship or a a negative relationship. It is equivalent to a neurosis which affects others whose affectations occasionally impinge on me.

If you are seeking a chain of reasoning which goes something like: my perception of life implies the "truth of a creator" I would tell you this. The work of Prigogine on the demonstration of "spontaneous structure" in dynamic chemical reactions has now removed the necessity of "a prime mover" as far as what we call "life" is concerned.

Fresco, why is it you can't just lay down this philosophical jargon for just a minute... ONE minute and say yes or no? LOL Yes or no. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not. God is not the question. What you believe about God is not the question. Shoot for that matter what I believe about God is not the question. What dok believes is the question. You, my friend, have wore me out. Give yourself a good pat on the back. :wink: *sigh*

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fresco wrote:

Steve,

...Leicester and Essex ( sounds like a part from Henry V)

Seagoon: Now tell me the truth, why were you sleeping on the piano in the garden?

Willium: 'cos the grass was damp mate! And, er, I don't wanna get the nadgers again ya see! My wife's got the lurgi, and my eldest boy's got the plin mate, on 'is legs!

Methinks thou art a tadge older than wot i is, but not much. but i'm always impressed by someone who can spell esexx and lester correctly.

Ms Fissbah...hehehe lol and (how you say it?) mwhaaahhaa hoohoohaaa Smile

(no I dont take anything seriously, I used to, until I realised things dont take me seriously...its mutual scepticism now)

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Bwaaaaaaaaa hahaha! Thanks for the giggles stevo Very Happy

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Steve wrote:
"...its mutual scepticism now."

That's very wise, and I wish I could live by that motto.

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hephzibah wrote:

Ok, I have a question for anyone who would care to answer. Think about this before you answer though.

What do you see when you look in the mirror?

Meaning what kind of person are you? How do you view yourself?

Any takers?

Sooo.... anyone else? Razz

Me thinks you all is a fearin a wimmin... hehehe...

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Aaahhh... I think we have finally discovered a truth!

Bwaaaaaaaaaa hahaha!

Kiddin... :wink:

Check ya'll out later.

(walks away snickering)

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hephzibah

Quote:

Fresco, why is it you can't just lay down this philosophical jargon for just a minute... ONE minute and say yes or no? LOL Yes or no. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not.

.......OK.........No

But can't you see that this reply is meaningless unless I conjure up "a picture of God". Since I don't know what your "God" looks like how can I reply to a yes/no question ? Its like asking me whether when I heard a piece of music did I see red or green. ....Actually its more like asking for a yes/no to the question "Have you stopped beating your wife"...either answer implying that I accept your premises.

I have tried to avoid "jargon" in this answer however it should still be clear that questions of "truth" (yes/no) DO depend on mutual beliefs about the nature of reality, contrary to your statement above.

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Fresco,

Thank you for replying. Here's the thing... Please before I say this try to put aside the fact that I believe in God, because honestly speaking this whole subject matter is beyond spiritual beliefs. I do understand what you are saying. I think that philosophy is a valid part of life. Everyone wants answers and most everyone would like to see the logic behind something. My whole point with all of this is that sometimes logic doesn't come in the form we expect it to.

Quote:

Actually its more like asking for a yes/no to the question "Have you stopped beating your wife"...either answer implying that I accept your premises.

This right here is a stumbling block to seeing things from a different angle. The reason is because you can say more than yes or no without going into the philosophy of the situation. You could say, "Yes, I realized I was wrong." implying that you agree with the premise. Or, "No, I don't beat my wife. I never did." implying you don't agree. However your answers are more like, "Well, that depends what you mean by beating my wife." No clarity either way because you don't want to commit to a premise. But you are mistaken as to what my premise really is. This conversation is about truth not God. I wasn't trying to bring God into this. Dok did. Smile

So what was my premise then? Simply this. Dok says he believes when he looks in the mirror he sees the face of God. That is his truth. To Dok himself he is a god. That is the truth he lives by. Is Dok God to me? Ummm... (sorry dok) no. My concept of God is much different than his. My concept is of a God that created everything. (Somehow I have a hard time imagining Dok sitting up on some throne in heaven with these bright red eyes (yeah, still got a picture of that avatar in my head dok... thanks... Razz

) Saying, "Let there be light" Every time I think of that I see these superman beams coming out of his eyes like lasers... LOL) Anyway, seeing God as the one who created everything is my truth. The truth I live by. Two separate truths from two separate people. Truth is a concept not limited to one persons ideal or perspectives.

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hephzibah,

Thanks for that clear reply.

BTW You may be interested to know how believers "handle" Prigigone. If so check out "Polkinghorne" on google.

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Fresco, can you please explain prigigone to me? I honestly have no clue what you are talking about here. I did google Polkinghorne. Am reading. Very interesting I might add.