Obama '08?

The two of you seem to have a lot of preconceived notions about who is registered to vote in registration drives and what those people's lives are like.

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'Told who to vote for?'

You presume knowledge where you have none, Fox. How do you know these people are told who to vote for? Or that they actually vote for these people, once in the booth?

It's just another tired Republican trope, oft repeated but little verified.

FD is right - you don't know what you are talking about, in the slightest. I've done plenty of voter registration work myself, much of it in what would accurately be described as slums and ghettos, and we never told anyone who to vote for, ever. In fact, we weren't legally allowed to even talk about it with them unless they asked us direct questions about the candidate, iirc.

Cycloptichorn

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FreeDuck wrote:

The two of you seem to have a lot of preconceived notions about who is registered to vote in registration drives and what those people's lives are like.

And you don't?

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FreeDuck wrote:

Well, I know some people who have been grateful to folks who come to their door to register them or to help them change their address or affiliation. My mother, for example, has a hard time driving and would not have updated her registration if someone hadn't come to her door. Nobody "twisted her arm" (what a bunch of hyperbole) but they did help her to do something that she wanted to do but probably would not have done.

Door to door people are somewhat suspicious most places where we live, Free Duck, and it is against the law for door to door sales in some areas. I realize that does not probably include politicians or voter registrations, but seriously, it may not be arm twisting but I would not be so presumptious to assume these people are not intending to register most of the people to the Democratic ticket. Personally, I would not trust any door to door operation very far. It looks like a relative could have helped her?

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Foxfyre wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
The two of you seem to have a lot of preconceived notions about who is registered to vote in registration drives and what those people's lives are like.

And you don't?

In this case, no. I certainly presume that those who are helped by these drives are people who don't find it as easy as you and I do to register and to vote. Otherwise they wouldn't need assistance. But I don't presume to know whether or not they read the news or can think for themselves.

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okie wrote:

It looks like a relative could have helped her?

In this case, no.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

'Told who to vote for?'

You presume knowledge where you have none, Fox. How do you know these people are told who to vote for? Or that they actually vote for these people, once in the booth?

It's just another tired Republican trope, oft repeated but little verified.

FD is right - you don't know what you are talking about, in the slightest. I've done plenty of voter registration work myself, much of it in what would accurately be described as slums and ghettos, and we never told anyone who to vote for, ever. In fact, we weren't legally allowed to even talk about it with them unless they asked us direct questions about the candidate, iirc.

Cycloptichorn

Did you ask for ID's cyclops, and did you verify if they were already registered either there or somewhere else? How did you know you didn't sign up a bunch of people illegally? Or did you care?

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FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
The two of you seem to have a lot of preconceived notions about who is registered to vote in registration drives and what those people's lives are like.

And you don't?

In this case, no. I certainly presume that those who are helped by these drives are people who don't find it as easy as you and I do to register and to vote. Otherwise they wouldn't need assistance. But I don't presume to know whether or not they read the news or can think for themselves.

Nor do I. But I do pay attention to 'man on the street' interviews conducted by various entertainment/media types, I read the essays on dynamics of exit polling, etc. and if you believe what people say, it does happen. And it's a pretty safe bet that those ACORN folks aren't seeking out Republicans to sign up too though they probably don't frequently reject (or lose) the Republican registrations.

The first time I registered to vote was in West Texas where my registration was automatically stamped DEMOCRAT. It never occurred to the people managing the registration process that anybody would register as anything else. And I remained a Democrat for a lot of years after that.

And while those who vote being instructed to vote voluntarily, there have also been those who have been paid to vote. And those who have sold their vote such as those who traded Nader votes in one state in return for Gore or Kerry votes in another.

The idea of paying or bribing people to vote is particularly interesting:

http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper869/stills/9yjp425s.jpg

MOST SAY THEIR VOTE HAS A PRICE

So with Obama promising a government financed college education to young people, etc. etc., who do you suppose they'll be instructed to vote for to get that? And how much will that affect who young people vote for etc.? I don't know how prevalent it is. But I suspect personal integrity may be sort of bypassed these days.

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okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:
'Told who to vote for?'

You presume knowledge where you have none, Fox. How do you know these people are told who to vote for? Or that they actually vote for these people, once in the booth?

It's just another tired Republican trope, oft repeated but little verified.

FD is right - you don't know what you are talking about, in the slightest. I've done plenty of voter registration work myself, much of it in what would accurately be described as slums and ghettos, and we never told anyone who to vote for, ever. In fact, we weren't legally allowed to even talk about it with them unless they asked us direct questions about the candidate, iirc.

Cycloptichorn

Did you ask for ID's cyclops, and did you verify if they were already registered either there or somewhere else? How did you know you didn't sign up a bunch of people illegally? Or did you care?

We were not required to do so by law, Okie. So no, we didn't ask for ID cards. I wouldn't have any authority to deny someone a voter registration based upon my judgment of their ID card.

And I'm not too concerned with 'illegally' signing up people. Those who aren't in this country legally are for the most part too afraid of being kicked out to risk voting illegally. It's not really an issue, and there certainly is no evidence pointing to it being a wide-spread problem.

I repeat once again: you, like Fox, presume knowledge where you have none. You have zero experience with this, but are suspicious, because it is poor folks and minorities signing up, and they tend to vote Dem; so the whole thing must be some sort of Dem trick or ploy to defeat Republicans. What a f*cking pathetic attitude, that you can't even get behind signing people up to vote.

Cycloptichorn

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

And I'm not too concerned with 'illegally' signing up people.
Cycloptichorn

Nothing more needs saying.

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okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

And I'm not too concerned with 'illegally' signing up people.
Cycloptichorn

Nothing more needs saying.

It's not a serious concern. And as you've spent exactly zero time working to sign anyone at all up, I'm not too concerned about your concerns - you don't know enough about the issue to have a productive discussion, but would instead rather rely upon tired memes and scare tactics.

Cycloptichorn

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Foxfyre, I'm struggling to find your point. You think that students shouldn't be able to vote? Or that ACORN and other voter registration drivers are trying to sign up students and then buy their votes?

You seemed to be saying earlier that if people needed to be signed up via drives that they shouldn't be voting anyway because that meant they weren't sufficiently educated or that they would vote for whoever the folks registering them told them to. Now you're saying that some students would be willing to sell their votes and I'm not sure how that relates.

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Thats right, cyclops, I've spent zero time. I guess I figure if people do not have enough initiative to sign up, then they probably aren't very motivated or educated voters, so I would rather they not vote. The problems we have now are not with people not voting, but people voting that are not informed. Voting nowadays is akin to entering the lottery, voting for the people that will return the most prize winnings.

By the way, I thought you could declare a party when you vote in the general, or correct something then, if you are already on the roles? And can't you correspond with a county clerk, to register by mail, or correct an address, etc.?

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FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre, I'm struggling to find your point. You think that students shouldn't be able to vote? Or that ACORN and other voter registration drivers are trying to sign up students and then buy their votes?

You seemed to be saying earlier that if people needed to be signed up via drives that they shouldn't be voting anyway because that meant they weren't sufficiently educated or that they would vote for whoever the folks registering them told them to. Now you're saying that some students would be willing to sell their votes and I'm not sure how that relates.

No Freeduck. I am trying to say that I prefer that people who are reasonably informed and sufficiently motivated to care about what their vote means for the country be the people who vote regardless of who they vote for. I have no problem informing such people where to go to register or informing them where to vote or providing them necessary transportation to get there. There have been very few elections where I have not in some capacity personally assisted with that process.

And while I think I would put my life on the line for their right to vote, I prefer not to encourage people to vote who are not informed or who can be manipulated or bribed or instructed who to vote for or who have insufficient motivation to register and vote on their own.

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Fox wrote:
No Freeduck. I am trying to say that I prefer that people who are reasonably informed and sufficiently motivated to care about what their vote means for the country be the people who vote regardless of who they vote for.

Most Americans are not sufficiently informed when they vote; that's been true in the past, and will also remain true in the future. So, what's the solution?

Most Americans only remember the sound-bites and little else; their impressions are usually wrong. Swift boat any one? Tis the season.

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Just heard a caller on Hannity, proposing the idea that Obama is not only a flip flopper, a lib running to the center, endorsing Bush policies even, but he may have a multiple personality.

I agree the man is very conflicted.

After reading his book, I had to conclude his political strategy was to triangulate all of the political persuasions, to be above the fray, to see them all as good because they all have their redeeming qualities, and morph them into one all knowing correct policy. And only the all knowing arbiter of all of this was Mr. Obama. He alone has the wisdom and political ability to bring change to the political world, to end all the partisanship, all the in fighting, and end up with the perfect world with all the correct answers. We will talk to our enemies, wars will no longer be necessary, after all, Barack has all the answers, and once the devil himself has a chance to hear the true ultimate wisdom from Mr. Obama himself, all of his desires to wreak havoc will have come to an end.

If Obama's platform is becoming more confusing by the day, what else could be expected? After all, he is all things to all people.

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okie wrote:

Just heard a caller on Hannity, proposing the idea that Obama is not only a flip flopper, a lib running to the center, endorsing Bush policies even, but he may have a multiple personality.

I agree the man is very conflicted.

After reading his book, I had to conclude his political strategy was to triangulate all of the political persuasions, to be above the fray, to see them all as good because they all have their redeeming qualities, and morph them into one all knowing correct policy. And only the all knowing arbiter of all of this was Mr. Obama. He alone has the wisdom and political ability to bring change to the political world, to end all the partisanship, all the in fighting, and end up with the perfect world with all the correct answers. We will talk to our enemies, wars will no longer be necessary, after all, Barack has all the answers, and once the devil himself has a chance to hear the true ultimate wisdom from Mr. Obama himself, all of his desires to wreak havoc will have come to an end.

If Obama's platform is becoming more confusing by the day, what else could be expected? After all, he is all things to all people.

Chapter and Verse (that led you to believe that fantastic concoction of nonsense), please... unless, of course, you're simply talking out of your a$$.

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Well, Bill, one of the big problems we've had with Obama is to pin him down on issues and to find out what is it really he advocates. We are going to see more of this equivocating and back tracking, etc., the closer the rubber meets the road. It is very easy to talk in generalities and platitudes, but eventually a politician must make a decision in regard to specifics.

I don't have the book here, so it will take some time, but have you read the book? Give me a few hours, to dig up some quotes.

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Just like McCain saying he's going to balance the budget in four years. He either doesn't understand money matters or that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan will prevent any president from "balancing the budget in four years."

Please ask McCain to explain his "rhetoric" about balancing the budget in four years. Details, please!

From USAToday and other news sources.

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Meanwhile, they're still out there. . . . .

http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/varv07052008a.jpg

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