Thomas
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 01:19 am
JPB wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Did Martin Luther King have a problem with very left-wing people? Do Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton? I would have said they are getting the least flak from left-wingers. So why should it be different for Obama?


I can't speak for left-wingers in general, but I think both of these men push a lot of buttons on both side of the bird.

Sure they do, but that's because Sharpton and Jackson are idiots, not because they're Christians. My point is they push no more buttons on the left than on the right. And Martin Luther King, definitely not an idiot but a pastor too, was canonized by the left before he was canonized by the right.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 06:53 am
But I think Sharpton and Jackson both have bigger issues with their Christianity from the left than Obama would/will. Maybe the idiocy factor brings the religious factor into play more for those two, and Obama doesn't have to deal with the idiocy factor in the least.

If it weren't for the reborn fanatic currently in office, I don't think Obama (or any other candidate) would have to defend being religious as long as they didn't define themselves and their vision in terms of their religion.

Relgious Affiliation of U.S. Presidents
Episcopalian 11
Presbyterian 10
Methodist 5
Baptist 4
Unitarian 4
Disciples of Christ 3
Dutch Reformed 2
Quaker 2
Congregationalist 2
Catholic 1
Jehovah's Witness 1
TOTAL 42 Source

There isn't an avowed atheist or agnostic on the list, and I don't think the left, any more than the right, expects a candidate to be without religion.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 06:55 am
Clever, clever, Democrats. Something occurred to me last night. The Democrats have been suffering from image problems for quite some time. The Republicans have been able to portray them as rudderless, faceless, wimps for the most part with no real way to counter that. When people think of the Democratic party, no real faces come to mind. I think all of this Obama hype is encouraged, if not orchestrated, by the Democrats in order to put a respectable, strong face on the Democratic party. Everybody likes Obama. He clearly has leadership qualities. The Dems are saying, look, this is what we are promising for the next presidential election. This is the embodiment of our principles. It's ok to vote for us now. And I wouldn't be surprised if it works. I think the hype is all about the coming election and will die down soon after. And that's probably better for Obama in the long run -- if it dies down but resurges in a year or so.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 06:57 am
Jesus. After the Republicans, anybody could come off as principled and able.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 06:59 am
I don't think this has been orchestrated at all - I think the Obama wave took everyone by suprise. Especially the Clinton Democrats. There may be those jumping on, trying to capitalize now, but the momentum came straight from Obama.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 06:59 am
Not anybody who has been in politics long enough to be tarred with any number of typical accusations of flip-floppiness, corruptness, wimpiness, whatever. They can't do anything to Obama because 1) he's not actually running and 2) he wasn't around to vote for or against Iraq and 3) he hasn't held office long enough to have his votes cherry-picked and held against him. It's brilliant, really.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 07:03 am
snood wrote:
I don't think this has been orchestrated at all - I think the Obama wave took everyone by suprise. Especially the Clinton Democrats. There may be those jumping on, trying to capitalize now, but the momentum came straight from Obama.


I don't think so, really. The speculation pushed him into considering the run, but I don't think he would have considered it this soon otherwise. The timing is very important.

I'm not saying that he doesn't merit the speculation and the hooplah, he most certainly does, I'm just saying that I think the timing is convenient for the Democratic party. And I think it's really smart of them. And I hope they take one house of Congress because of it.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 07:12 am
Well we disagree about the manner in which this situation came about, and that's okay.
I think he began considering it seriously because of the responses he was getting in his non-stop criss-crossing of the country over the last 6 months.

Although I'm not naive to the reality that the manipulators are now jumping on board, I don't think there has been any brilliant calculation that has made him loom so large in the American psyche up until right now. I think its because when people began to listen to what he says, it was like cool water on the brain after a long drought.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 07:15 am
Yeah, that could be, and I can see how just letting people hear him speak would be enough to generate the buzz. I'm totally speculating, of course, and have no way of knowing what goes on in the minds of Democrat party officials.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 07:21 am
The lady Diane is like so totally enthraled with with Obama ( I am curious) one thing I would note is there are lots of average white guys/gals that would would for Obama as a "feel good" measure for their liberalality.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Wed 25 Oct, 2006 07:42 am
Perhaps, dys, but not in the presence of a viable white candidate. I don't think the buzz is because he's so dynamic 'and he's black'. He is a product of his heritage, and perhaps wouldn't be as dynamic without it, but I'm much more interested in what he's saying than the color of his skin. I'm bandwagon jumping simply based on what I'm hearing from him and the possibility that there might be someone other than Hillary on the ticket. Someone who could actually defeat a conservative Republican candidate.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2006 10:36 am
Don't know why it took me so long to come across this. Obama's remarks on the Military Commissions (shudder) bill.

http://obama.senate.gov/speech/060928-remarks_of_senator_barack_obama_on_the_military_commission_legislation/index.html

snippet:
Quote:
Mr. President, I am proud to be sponsoring this amendment with the senior senator from West Virginia. He's absolutely right that Congress has abrogated its oversight responsibilities, and one way to reverse that troubling trend is to adopt a sunset provision in this bill. We did that in the Patriot Act, and that allowed us to make important revisions to the bill that reflected our experience about what worked and didn't work during the previous 5 years. We should do that again with this important piece of legislation.

But I want to take a few minutes to speak more broadly about the bill before us.

I may have only been in this body for a short while, but I am not naive to the political considerations that go along with many of the decisions we make here. I realize that soon, we will adjourn for the fall, and the campaigning will begin in earnest. And there will be 30-second attack ads and negative mail pieces, and we will be criticized as caring more about the rights of terrorists than the protection of Americans. And I know that the vote before us was specifically designed and timed to add more fuel to that fire.

And yet, while I know all of this, I'm still disappointed. Because what we're doing here today - a debate over the fundamental human rights of the accused - should be bigger than politics. This is serious.

If this was a debate with obvious ideological differences - heartfelt convictions that couldn't be settled by compromise - I would understand. But it's not.

All of us - Democrats and Republicans - want to do whatever it takes to track down terrorists and bring them to justice as swiftly as possible. All of us want to give our President every tool necessary to do this. And all of us were willing to do that in this bill. Anyone who says otherwise is lying to the American people.

In the five years that the President's system of military tribunals has existed, not one terrorist has been tried. Not one has been convicted. And in the end, the Supreme Court of the United found the whole thing unconstitutional, which is why we're here today.

We could have fixed all of this in a way that allows us to detain and interrogate and try suspected terrorists while still protecting the accidentally accused from spending their lives locked away in Guantanamo Bay. Easily. This was not an either-or question.

Instead of allowing this President - or any President - to decide what does and does not constitute torture, we could have left the definition up to our own laws and to the Geneva Conventions, as we would have if we passed the bill that the Armed Services committee originally offered.

Instead of detainees arriving at Guantanamo and facing a Combatant Status Review Tribunal that allows them no real chance to prove their innocence with evidence or a lawyer, we could have developed a real military system of justice that would sort out the suspected terrorists from the accidentally accused.

And instead of not just suspending, but eliminating, the right of habeas corpus - the seven century-old right of individuals to challenge the terms of their own detention, we could have given the accused one chance - one single chance - to ask the government why they are being held and what they are being charged with.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2006 10:39 am
Damn damn damn.

That's a good one, hadn't seen it either.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2006 10:44 am
I see your damns, and raise you a damn. Damn.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2006 11:10 am
snood wrote:
I think he began considering it seriously because of the responses he was getting in his non-stop criss-crossing of the country over the last 6 months.


this is probably a dumb&(%& question, but why has he been criss-crossing over the last 6 months.

I actually sort of know, but I'd like to get some American perspectives on the activity.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2006 11:11 am
#1 fundraiser for Democrats.

No bigger draw.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2006 11:13 am
Quote:
Obama: The senator with the Midas touch
Wednesday, February 15, 2006
Printable Format

ASSOCIATED PRESS
DENNIS CONRAD

WASHINGTON - Barack Obama has shown a Midas touch in so many different ways that it's easy to forget he's just another new senator.

In the past year, the freshman from Illinois has become a best-selling author, a millionaire, a Grammy Award winner and an important fundraiser for Democrats.

Altogether, Obama has helped raise $6.5 million for his political action committee and other Democratic candidates, party committees and state parties, as he crisscrosses the country from New Jersey to Virginia to Florida.

He brought in about $800,000 with an e-mail message sent out on MoveOn.org on behalf of Sen. Robert C. Byrd, D-W.Va., who at age 88 is seeking a ninth term in office.

"He said some nice things about me," Byrd recalled. "Anywhere he comes in West Virginia we will give the man a great reception. He's a wonderful man."

Some of Obama's fundraising activities are part of his job as a vice chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee.

"These are trips not initiated by me; these are trips that other people think will be helpful," Obama said, noting he has family and political obligations in Illinois. "For every invitation I've accepted, I've turned down 100."


http://obama.senate.gov/news/060215-obama_the_senator_with_the_midas_touch/index.html
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2006 11:20 am
A feel-good for my or anyone else's liberality? I don't think so - or at least I suspect that that isn't what is going on for most who are interested in a positive way about Obama being a potential candidate. Ain't my liberality - it's my sense of despair that is waking up to hope.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2006 11:24 am
OK I haven't found anything to confirm the #1 part yet, seem to remember reading that someplace but if so haven't found it back. Bill Clinton for example may be bigger, I dunno. Definitely found a lot about how he's a major fundraiser, though.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 26 Oct, 2006 11:36 am
This isn't quite it, but the bolded part is the main thing I'm getting at anyway:

Quote:
His office fields more than 300 requests a week for appearances. One Senate Democrat, curious about Obama's charisma, took notes when watching him perform at a recent political event. State parties report breaking fundraising records when Obama is the speaker.

The money he is bringing in for fellow Democrats is shaping up as an important influence on 2006.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/17/AR2006061700736_pf.html
0 Replies
 
 

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