Obama '08?

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

kicky I have a lot of "real time " friends... young and old, black, white and every hue in between, male and female, who support Obama and we have had many discussions about this election and we disagree on many things.
Same with the McCain supporters I know, although I don't know as many who support McCain.

Only on A2K have I been branded an idiot, a hater and a racist. Only here.

LOL well, don't feel bad. I have been accused of being a man here. Something that NEVER happens in real life.

I wouldn't take being called an idiot to heart. I have a 145 IQ and get called an idiot all the time. I don't recall seeing you called a racist or a hater although you, at times, display homophobic and misogynist sentiments.

BPB, I was only responding to this bullshit statement by Foxfyre:

Foxfyre wrote:

[anybody who doesn't embrace the particular messianic fervor of the day--no matter what the subject--will be branded "repub" or "rightwingnut" or "racist" or "bigot" or "idiot".

You do see how this is bullshit, don't you?

kick my friend... we need patron shots and a lap dance. Something we can agree on. Bi-partisan bonding and all....

kickycan wrote:

BPB, I was only responding to this bullshit statement by Foxfyre:

Foxfyre wrote:

[anybody who doesn't embrace the particular messianic fervor of the day--no matter what the subject--will be branded "repub" or "rightwingnut" or "racist" or "bigot" or "idiot".

You do see how this is bullshit, don't you?

Did it not occur to you that it would be more honest to use my entire quote instead of picking out the line you could pretend said something else and therefore was more easy to attack?

Cycloptichorn wrote:

rabel22 wrote:

All I hear from you and him is change. Just exactly what Bush said in order to get elected. Instead of telling me I don't listen why don't you tell me what he really believes and how he is going to accomplish what he claims he is going to do. All I have ever heard from you is go to his spin sites which I never do because they are brain washing sites which say nothing wether dem or rep. So when you say nothing your right I don't hear anything.

Well, heck. What would you like me to discuss, specifically? It's difficult for us to move forward without knowledge of specific topics, as there are so many different aspects of governance that he has discussed...

I promise not to send you any site, either.

Cycloptichorn

OK,
This is directly from Obama's website...

Quote:

Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Now, how is he going to accomplish this?

Is he going to bring troops home and leave their equipment behind?
Its not possible to bring two brigades, with ALL of their equipment, home in one month.

the infrastructure built by a brigade just to support themselves is massive.
Also, since there are approx 15 people supporting each combat soldier, people like cooks, medical staff, mechanics, armorers, clerks, IT people, and others in non combat roles, is he counting them in his remarks?
Or, did he leave himself a way out by specifying COMBAT brigades?

And if he wont build permanent bases in Iraq to

Quote:

carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda

then where else in the region will he station them?
Israel?
Kuwait?
Saudi Arabia?
Yemen?
Exactly where will he station them?
And, does he have permission or agreements with those other countries to launch offensive attacks into Iraq from those other countries?

His statements don't answer any of those questions, neither does his website.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

rabel22 wrote:

All I hear from you and him is change. Just exactly what Bush said in order to get elected. Instead of telling me I don't listen why don't you tell me what he really believes and how he is going to accomplish what he claims he is going to do. All I have ever heard from you is go to his spin sites which I never do because they are brain washing sites which say nothing wether dem or rep. So when you say nothing your right I don't hear anything.

Well, heck. What would you like me to discuss, specifically? It's difficult for us to move forward without knowledge of specific topics, as there are so many different aspects of governance that he has discussed...

I promise not to send you any site, either.

Cycloptichorn

OK,
This is directly from Obama's website...

Quote:

Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Now, how is he going to accomplish this?
Is he going to bring troops home and leave their equipment behind?
Its not possible to bring two brigades, with ALL of their equipment, home in one month.
the infrastructure built by a brigade just to support themselves is massive.
Also, since there are approx 15 people supporting each combat soldier, people like cooks, medical staff, mechanics, armorers, clerks, IT people, and others in non combat roles, is he counting them in his remarks?
Or, did he leave himself a way out by specifying COMBAT brigades?

And if he wont build permanent bases in Iraq to

Quote:

carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda

then where else in the region will he station them?
Israel?
Kuwait?
Saudi Arabia?
Yemen?
Exactly where will he station them?
And, does he have permission or agreements with those other countries to launch offensive attacks into Iraq from those other countries?

His statements dont answer any of those questions, neither does his website.

- Obama has said that he wants to bring the troops out but will listen to the expert counsel of generals (etc.) in the field. This is, in fact, an over-arching policy of his, the whole pragmatism thing. Seek out expert advice and listen to it (as opposed to surrounding himself with yes-men), then make decisions based on it.

mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

rabel22 wrote:

All I hear from you and him is change. Just exactly what Bush said in order to get elected. Instead of telling me I don't listen why don't you tell me what he really believes and how he is going to accomplish what he claims he is going to do. All I have ever heard from you is go to his spin sites which I never do because they are brain washing sites which say nothing wether dem or rep. So when you say nothing your right I don't hear anything.

Well, heck. What would you like me to discuss, specifically? It's difficult for us to move forward without knowledge of specific topics, as there are so many different aspects of governance that he has discussed...

I promise not to send you any site, either.

Cycloptichorn

OK,
This is directly from Obama's website...

Quote:

Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Now, how is he going to accomplish this?

By telling the military commanders that this is what is to be done.

Quote:

Is he going to bring troops home and leave their equipment behind?
Its not possible to bring two brigades, with ALL of their equipment, home in one month.

Some of the equipment will be left behind. This has always been part of the plan; it's going to be more expensive to ship some of the heavier stuff back then it would be to sell it to the new IA.

We can withdraw a brigade in a month. I don't know why you think we can't. The most powerful force on earth, and you have a pretty dim opinion of our abilities. The decision to make it happen is the most important part.

Quote:

the infrastructure built by a brigade just to support themselves is massive.
Also, since there are approx 15 people supporting each combat soldier, people like cooks, medical staff, mechanics, armorers, clerks, IT people, and others in non combat roles, is he counting them in his remarks?
Or, did he leave himself a way out by specifying COMBAT brigades?

As we pay for those people to be there too, why not bring them home as well?

Quote:

And if he wont build permanent bases in Iraq to

Quote:

carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda

then where else in the region will he station them?
Israel?
Kuwait?
Saudi Arabia?
Yemen?
Exactly where will he station them?
And, does he have permission or agreements with those other countries to launch offensive attacks into Iraq from those other countries?

There will be some soldiers in Iraq for some time yet. A lack of 'permanent bases' does not mean 'complete withdraw.' Taking out all of our 'combat brigades' does not mean that all of our fighting troops will be gone from Iraq. I actually wish he would pull them out quicker, but I doubt he will.

Quote:

His statements don't answer any of those questions, neither does his website.

I think that some of his statements have answered exactly this, now, is it in ever big speech he does? No. Try looking for some town hall transcripts, I'll see what I can find; when given time to answer, he's specific on these issues.

I think it's also worth mentioning that he needs the leadership of the armed forces to help him plan this. Hard to get that assistance until the president has changed hands.

I would note that McCain hasn't outlined his plan for winning either; other then to say that it will be won...

Cycloptichorn

mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

rabel22 wrote:

All I hear from you and him is change. Just exactly what Bush said in order to get elected. Instead of telling me I don't listen why don't you tell me what he really believes and how he is going to accomplish what he claims he is going to do. All I have ever heard from you is go to his spin sites which I never do because they are brain washing sites which say nothing wether dem or rep. So when you say nothing your right I don't hear anything.

Well, heck. What would you like me to discuss, specifically? It's difficult for us to move forward without knowledge of specific topics, as there are so many different aspects of governance that he has discussed...

I promise not to send you any site, either.

Cycloptichorn

OK,
This is directly from Obama's website...

Quote:

Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Now, how is he going to accomplish this?
Is he going to bring troops home and leave their equipment behind?
Its not possible to bring two brigades, with ALL of their equipment, home in one month.
the infrastructure built by a brigade just to support themselves is massive.
Also, since there are approx 15 people supporting each combat soldier, people like cooks, medical staff, mechanics, armorers, clerks, IT people, and others in non combat roles, is he counting them in his remarks?
Or, did he leave himself a way out by specifying COMBAT brigades?

And if he wont build permanent bases in Iraq to

Quote:

carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda

then where else in the region will he station them?
Israel?
Kuwait?
Saudi Arabia?
Yemen?
Exactly where will he station them?
And, does he have permission or agreements with those other countries to launch offensive attacks into Iraq from those other countries?

His statements dont answer any of those questions, neither does his website.

Same as Bush, after 6 years! Any questions?

Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

rabel22 wrote:

All I hear from you and him is change. Just exactly what Bush said in order to get elected. Instead of telling me I don't listen why don't you tell me what he really believes and how he is going to accomplish what he claims he is going to do. All I have ever heard from you is go to his spin sites which I never do because they are brain washing sites which say nothing wether dem or rep. So when you say nothing your right I don't hear anything.

Well, heck. What would you like me to discuss, specifically? It's difficult for us to move forward without knowledge of specific topics, as there are so many different aspects of governance that he has discussed...

I promise not to send you any site, either.

Cycloptichorn

OK,
This is directly from Obama's website...

Quote:

Bringing Our Troops Home
Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

Now, how is he going to accomplish this?

By telling the military commanders that this is what is to be done.

Quote:

Is he going to bring troops home and leave their equipment behind?
Its not possible to bring two brigades, with ALL of their equipment, home in one month.

Some of the equipment will be left behind. This has always been part of the plan; it's going to be more expensive to ship some of the heavier stuff back then it would be to sell it to the new IA.

We can withdraw a brigade in a month. I don't know why you think we can't. The most powerful force on earth, and you have a pretty dim opinion of our abilities. The decision to make it happen is the most important part.

Quote:

the infrastructure built by a brigade just to support themselves is massive.
Also, since there are approx 15 people supporting each combat soldier, people like cooks, medical staff, mechanics, armorers, clerks, IT people, and others in non combat roles, is he counting them in his remarks?
Or, did he leave himself a way out by specifying COMBAT brigades?

As we pay for those people to be there too, why not bring them home as well?

Quote:

And if he wont build permanent bases in Iraq to

Quote:

carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda

then where else in the region will he station them?
Israel?
Kuwait?
Saudi Arabia?
Yemen?
Exactly where will he station them?
And, does he have permission or agreements with those other countries to launch offensive attacks into Iraq from those other countries?

There will be some soldiers in Iraq for some time yet. A lack of 'permanent bases' does not mean 'complete withdraw.' Taking out all of our 'combat brigades' does not mean that all of our fighting troops will be gone from Iraq. I actually wish he would pull them out quicker, but I doubt he will.

Quote:

His statements don't answer any of those questions, neither does his website.

I think that some of his statements have answered exactly this, now, is it in ever big speech he does? No. Try looking for some town hall transcripts, I'll see what I can find; when given time to answer, he's specific on these issues.

I think it's also worth mentioning that he needs the leadership of the armed forces to help him plan this. Hard to get that assistance until the president has changed hands.

I would note that McCain hasn't outlined his plan for winning either; other then to say that it will be won...

Cycloptichorn

You claimed that Obama had specific plans, and had outlined them either in speeches or on his website.
So, where are those specific plans outlined?
He listed a generality on his website about leaving Iraq, but there are no specifics.

So, discuss the specifics of his plan to leave Iraq, answering the questions I asked.

About what, specifically?

About what, specifically?