Obama '08?

> INCOME TAX
> MCCAIN
> (no changes)
> Single making 30K - tax $4,500
> Single making 50K - tax $12,500
> Single making 75K - tax $18,750
> Married making 60K- tax $9,000
> Married making 75K - tax $18,750
> Married making 125K - tax $31,250

> OBAMA
> (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
> Single making 30K - tax $8,400
> Single making 50K - tax $14,000
> Single making 75K - tax $23,250
> Married making 60K - tax $16,800
> Marri ed making 75K - tax $21,000
> Married making 125K - tax $38,750
>

> CLINTON
> (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
> Single making 30K - tax $8,400
> Single making 50K - tax $14,000
> Single making 75K - tax $23,250
> Married making 60K - tax $16,800
> Married making 75K - tax $21,000
> Married making 125K - tax $38,750

> INCOME TAX
> MCCAIN
> (no changes)
> Single making 30K - tax $4,500
> Single making 50K - tax $12,500
> Single making 75K - tax $18,750
> Married making 60K- tax $9,000
> Married making 75K - tax $18,750
> Married making 125K - tax $31,250

> OBAMA
> (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
> Single making 30K - tax $8,400
> Single making 50K - tax $14,000
> Single making 75K - tax $23,250
> Married making 60K - tax $16,800
> Marri ed making 75K - tax $21,000
> Married making 125K - tax $38,750
>

> CLINTON
> (reversion to pre-Bush tax cuts)
> Single making 30K - tax $8,400
> Single making 50K - tax $14,000
> Single making 75K - tax $23,250
> Married making 60K - tax $16,800
> Married making 75K - tax $21,000
> Married making 125K - tax $38,750

"To be fair, Obama has made cutting taxes for those who make less then 75k a platform position, so your numbers for him are off. And it's one I disagree with him on. "

Then please feel free to write a check payable to the US Treasury for whatever amount of additional money of YOUR you want to give them to spend. Keep you hands out of my pocket!

woiyo wrote:

"To be fair, Obama has made cutting taxes for those who make less then 75k a platform position, so your numbers for him are off. And it's one I disagree with him on. "

Then please feel free to write a check payable to the US Treasury for whatever amount of additional money of YOUR you want to give them to spend. Keep you hands out of my pocket!

No, I will not keep my hands out of your pocket, or anyone's. This country is massively in debt and our deficits are not going to go away by wishing them away. If we can't be fiscally responsible together, we will all go down with the ship together. I won't have that, so I will vote to take more of both your and my money to help right the problem.

The fact that you want to ignore the reality of our financial situation means nothing to me.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

woiyo wrote:

"To be fair, Obama has made cutting taxes for those who make less then 75k a platform position, so your numbers for him are off. And it's one I disagree with him on. "

Then please feel free to write a check payable to the US Treasury for whatever amount of additional money of YOUR you want to give them to spend. Keep you hands out of my pocket!

No, I will not keep my hands out of your pocket, or anyone's. This country is massively in debt and our deficits are not going to go away by wishing them away. If we can't be fiscally responsible together, we will all go down with the ship together. I won't have that, so I will vote to take more of both your and my money to help right the problem.

The fact that you want to ignore the reality of our financial situation means nothing to me.

Cycloptichorn

Then write your own check to the Treasury. I wish we had a strong government that knew how to handle the countries business and could handle a budget. I also wish we had voters who had objective and creative senses who could see through the BS being laid upon them. You are NOT one of those voters.

woiyo wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

woiyo wrote:

"To be fair, Obama has made cutting taxes for those who make less then 75k a platform position, so your numbers for him are off. And it's one I disagree with him on. "

Then please feel free to write a check payable to the US Treasury for whatever amount of additional money of YOUR you want to give them to spend. Keep you hands out of my pocket!

No, I will not keep my hands out of your pocket, or anyone's. This country is massively in debt and our deficits are not going to go away by wishing them away. If we can't be fiscally responsible together, we will all go down with the ship together. I won't have that, so I will vote to take more of both your and my money to help right the problem.

The fact that you want to ignore the reality of our financial situation means nothing to me.

Cycloptichorn

Then write your own check to the Treasury. I wish we had a strong government that knew how to handle the countries business and could handle a budget. I also wish we had voters who had objective and creative senses who could see through the BS being laid upon them. You are NOT one of those voters.

You think that the deficit and debt numbers are BS? That they are just made up?

I don't have the funds to fix our national problems. But everyone working together, does have the funds to fix them. That's why my writing a check myself is stupid, and voting for more taxes for others is smart, when it comes to solving our financial problems.

Cycloptichorn

'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.' -- Barack Obama

Cycloptichorn wrote:

woiyo wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

woiyo wrote:

"To be fair, Obama has made cutting taxes for those who make less then 75k a platform position, so your numbers for him are off. And it's one I disagree with him on. "

Then please feel free to write a check payable to the US Treasury for whatever amount of additional money of YOUR you want to give them to spend. Keep you hands out of my pocket!

No, I will not keep my hands out of your pocket, or anyone's. This country is massively in debt and our deficits are not going to go away by wishing them away. If we can't be fiscally responsible together, we will all go down with the ship together. I won't have that, so I will vote to take more of both your and my money to help right the problem.

The fact that you want to ignore the reality of our financial situation means nothing to me.

Cycloptichorn

Then write your own check to the Treasury. I wish we had a strong government that knew how to handle the countries business and could handle a budget. I also wish we had voters who had objective and creative senses who could see through the BS being laid upon them. You are NOT one of those voters.

You think that the deficit and debt numbers are BS? That they are just made up?

I don't have the funds to fix our national problems. But everyone working together, does have the funds to fix them. That's why my writing a check myself is stupid, and voting for more taxes for others is smart, when it comes to solving our financial problems.

Cycloptichorn

I did not say the deficit was BS. I said you and every tax raising politicans plan to offset the deficit by increasing revenue is BS.

I am sure you can find a few extra dollars to send to your Government. Heck, you ride a bike and must be saving a few dollars on gas!

Tax rates are at confiscatory limits IMO. Top bracket should be no more than 25%. It can be done if we had real leadership .

Govt spends where it should not and wastes the rest.

Tell your Democratic Controlled Congress to get that 100B out of Iraq and in the nations pocket yesterday. We do not need to be spending that much over there.

So my choice is simple relative to taxes. Which candidate will raise my taxes the least?

Two points:

1) cjhsa's taxation table conveniently omits that Clinton and Obama both want to keep the Bush tax cuts for the middle and the lower income tax brackets -- which happens to be what makes his table look scary.

2) Taxation tables give only an incomplete picture. The complete deal, for both parties, always boils down to a tradeoff of between more generous government services and lower taxes. So the real question for, say, a single making 50K isn't, "is $12,500 or $14,000 the best tax sum to pay?" Rather it becomes, "is it worth an extra $1.500 to get universal healthcare, secure my house against foreclosure, and make college more affordable for my kids?" When comparing the candidates' platforms, we shouldn't pick cherries; we should look at the whole package.

You do realize that the taxes in America - while higher then that 25% you posit, at the upper ends - are at historical lows at this point?

Cycloptichorn wrote:

You do realize that the taxes in America - while higher then that 25% you posit, at the upper ends - are at historical lows at this point?

Really? Well, then my history is obviously longer than yours. (Some Freudian punchline must be hiding somewhere behind this sentence.)

Thomas wrote:

Two points:

1) cjhsa's taxation table conveniently omits that Clinton and Obama both want to keep the Bush tax cuts for the middle and the lower income tax brackets -- which happens to be what makes his table look scary.

2) Taxation tables give only an incomplete picture. The complete deal, for both parties, always boils down to a tradeoff of between more generous government services and lower taxes. So the real question for, say, a single making 50K isn't, "is $12,500 or $14,000 the best tax sum to pay?" Rather it becomes, "is it worth an extra $1.500 to get universal healthcare, secure my house against foreclosure, and make college more affordable for my kids?" When comparing the candidates' platforms, we shouldn't pick cherries; we should look at the whole package.

Why would a single making 50k care about any of those things? Living single and making 50k those things should be taken care of as health insurance for a single person is very affordable, housing for a single person is cheap and he/she would not have kids worrying about college, would they?

Are you counting the the altrusitic nature of this presumed person? That he should worry about your healthcare, your inability to secure a decent mortgage and your kids going to college? When did those things become everyone else's responsibility?

In listening to NPR yesterday, they were interviewing a couple in China who lived in a 10x10 room in a reconditioned factory that shared a bathroom with 6 other families. The man was a truck driver and his wife a house cleaner. They had come to the big city from a small rural village to try to find success. After some unfortunate incidents, they were further behind the 8 ball then when they first arrived. When asked if they thought that was fair, they replied that they did. They knew they were not educated and realized that not everything would be handed to them. They accepted their position in society without expecting handouts, demanding free healthcare, free schooling etc. They continued to work hard doing what they did.

Pity more Americans can't accept that they too must work for the things they have.

Good post...

woiyo wrote:

Tax rates are at confiscatory limits IMO. Top bracket should be no more than 25%. It can be done if we had real leadership .

Govt spends where it should not and wastes the rest.

Tell your Democratic Controlled Congress to get that 100B out of Iraq and in the nations pocket yesterday. We do not need to be spending that much over there.

So my choice is simple relative to taxes. Which candidate will raise my taxes the least?

You do realize that the taxes in America - while higher then that 25% you posit, at the upper ends - are at historical lows at this point? And that America has become the most prosperous and richest nation in the world, both in terms of gov't influence in the world at large AND in terms of net personal wealth - during these taxes which you claim are 'too high?'

Cycloptichorn

Thomas wrote:

Two points:

1) cjhsa's taxation table conveniently omits that Clinton and Obama both want to keep the Bush tax cuts for the middle and the lower income tax brackets -- which happens to be what makes his table look scary.

2) Taxation tables give only an incomplete picture. The complete deal, for both parties, always boils down to a tradeoff of between more generous government services and lower taxes. So the real question for, say, a single making 50K isn't, "is $12,500 or $14,000 the best tax sum to pay?" Rather it becomes, "is it worth an extra $1.500 to get universal healthcare, secure my house against foreclosure, and make college more affordable for my kids?" When comparing the candidates' platforms, we shouldn't pick cherries; we should look at the whole package.

Why would a single making 50k care about any of those things? Living single and making 50k those things should be taken care of as health insurance for a single person is very affordable, housing for a single person is cheap and he/she would not have kids worrying about college, would they?

Are you counting the the altrusitic nature of this presumed person? That he should worry about your healthcare, your inability to secure a decent mortgage and your kids going to college? When did those things become everyone else's responsibility?

In listening to NPR yesterday, they were interviewing a couple in China who lived in a 10x10 room in a reconditioned factory that shared a bathroom with 6 other families. The man was a truck driver and his wife a house cleaner. They had come to the big city from a small rural village to try to find success. After some unfortunate incidents, they were further behind the 8 ball then when they first arrived. When asked if they thought that was fair, they replied that they did. They knew they were not educated and realized that not everything would be handed to them. They accepted their position in society without expecting handouts, demanding free healthcare, free schooling etc. They continued to work hard doing what they did.

Pity more Americans can't accept that they too must work for the things they have.