Obama '08?

Engineer wrote

Quote:

I didn't say the government should tell you what to drive, nor do I believe that (and you can't find that in my post quoted above). I'm saying it's fine for a politician to tell the American public that they consume too much and that it puts our country at risk. Foreign governments control the price of oil, our hard-earned productivity is being shipped to the Middle East and IT'S OUR FAULT. If Obama is willing to stand up and say that, more power to him.

The problem with environmental policies purport to impose on us 'little people' is that they always seem to be suggested by those who stand to benefit most personally from the money pumped into those policies and/or whatever publicity they can generate by proposing them. To wit Al Gore's 10,000 sq. ft. mansion in Tennesse.

Or Obama's in Chicago (click on the link to the graphic)

The Mansion Obama built:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3433485.ece

How seriously do we take people who have absolutely no intention of living now as they insist that the rest of us live then?

You forgot "God Bless You", real life, you dead-from-the-neck-up tool.

Foxfyre wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Diest TKO wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Well gee. Was it the Nazis or Germany who started WWII?

You're making my point for me.

T
K
O

And what point would that be?

That the degree of political involvement a particular idea in a government is relavant. With WWII we fought Germany, because it was the direct threat. With Afganistan, we are fighting Al Queda, but what we do effects the people of Afganistan.

Now think of Iraq.
Now think of Iran.

You and I will agree that we must engage groups like Alqueda and Hamas, but we do so much better when we have a international cooperation.

If you dropped a bomb in Iran, would it kill Iranians or Terrorists?

T
K
O

I'm sorry TKO, but I'm not following your train of thought here. I was responding to Nimh as to whether the USSR with all its ICBMs was a greater threat to us than little countries headed by terrorist minded leaders. And I thought that issue was not quite as cut and dried as it might appear at first blush and provided an example to illustrate that.

I don't see how where you are going with this is relevant to that. I wasn't dealing with 'engaging' anybody other than in the context of whether Obama's proposed policy or McCain's (or Hillary's) is the way to go when dealing with terrorist types and thought the 'size of a presumed threat' should not necessarily be the determining factor.

Fair enough. I'm just trying to frame why I think it's important to talk to these countries. Right now, the dialog seems to revolve around the idea that Obama might negotiate with terrorists because he wants to talk to countries like Iran and Cuba etc. I think it's important, I acknowledge it's challenging. I just hate how neocons are trying to sell the 2-for-1 here.

T
K
O

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/09/obama_adviser_tied_to_hamas_me.html

Obama Adviser Tied to Hamas Meetings Resigns

By Glenn Kessler
An informal Middle East adviser to Sen. Barack Obama's campaign resigned Friday after a newspaper reported on his regular meetings with members of the Hamas militant group.

Rob Malley said he wanted to stop being a distraction for the campaign after facing attacks from the blogosphere for months for allegedly being anti-Israel, a charge he denies. Malley is a former National Security Council aide to President Bill Clinton who is now with the International Crisis Group, a nonpartisan conflict-resolution think tank.

You're a moron.



Here's what I use to go to the grocery store, etc. 150 lb. carrying capacity, folds down flat, super light, inexpensive. I can carry 8 bags of groceries in one of these things, and have done so many times.
Cycloptichorn

woiyo wrote:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/09/obama_adviser_tied_to_hamas_me.html

Obama Adviser Tied to Hamas Meetings Resigns

By Glenn Kessler
An informal Middle East adviser to Sen. Barack Obama's campaign resigned Friday after a newspaper reported on his regular meetings with members of the Hamas militant group.

Rob Malley said he wanted to stop being a distraction for the campaign after facing attacks from the blogosphere for months for allegedly being anti-Israel, a charge he denies. Malley is a former National Security Council aide to President Bill Clinton who is now with the International Crisis Group, a nonpartisan conflict-resolution think tank.

Malley wasn't a foreign agent and was only an informal adviser to Obama.

You forgot "God Bless You", real life, you dead-from-the-neck-up tool.

Roxxxanne wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Carbon offsets are one of the biggest boondoggles I've seen .

[sic]

Setting aside the the confusing syntax, precisely how are carbon offsets "boondoggles?" Maybe if we could just borrow that magic twanger of yours, we could just wave and do away with CO2.

Are you questioning the fact that CO2 emissions are harmful?

Are you questioning the fact that CO2 emissions are harmful?

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Cycloptichorn wrote:

You're a moron.



Here's what I use to go to the grocery store, etc. 150 lb. carrying capacity, folds down flat, super light, inexpensive. I can carry 8 bags of groceries in one of these things, and have done so many times.
Cycloptichorn

Only a moron would ride a bicycle in city traffic, and even a bigger moron to take their children along and subject them to the same lack of safety. Unless I have a death wish, I won't ride a bicycle on the edge of streets anymore. I tried it once. I used to ride to work every day on a bicycle and it almost maimed me. Also, motorcycles and scooters, a member of the family was killed on one, so I figure my life is worth more than a few measly gallons of gas.

Unless there are bike paths to ride on, no thanks, cyclops.

okie wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

You're a moron.



Here's what I use to go to the grocery store, etc. 150 lb. carrying capacity, folds down flat, super light, inexpensive. I can carry 8 bags of groceries in one of these things, and have done so many times.
Cycloptichorn

Only a moron would ride a bicycle in city traffic, and even a bigger moron to take their children along and subject them to the same lack of safety. Unless I have a death wish, I won't ride a bicycle on the edge of streets anymore. I tried it once. I used to ride to work every day on a bicycle and it almost maimed me. Also, motorcycles and scooters, a member of the family was killed on one, so I figure my life is worth more than a few measly gallons of gas.

Unless there are bike paths to ride on, no thanks, cyclops.

Wuss.

Statistically, driving a car is just as dangerous as riding a bicycle. And knowing which streets are good to ride on, and which aren't, is an important part of the process as well.

Here's the kids version -



It's basically a steel crash cage that goes around your tyke. Reported deaths due to use of these - 0.

Lack of imagination kills you guys.

Cycloptichorn

Okay, back on topic people. Here are some highlights of Obama's proposed energy policy. A good many of these issues have been discussed and/or are being discussed on the global warming thread:

--Calls for cutting U.S. carbon dioxide emissions 80 percent below 1990 levels by 2050. Would accomplish this through a cap-and-trade system that would auction off 100 percent of emissions permits, making polluters pay for the CO2 they emit.


--Would channel revenue raised from auctioning emissions permits -- between $30 billion and $50 billion a year -- toward developing and deploying clean energy technology, creating "green jobs," and helping low-income Americans afford higher energy bills.


--Calls for 25 percent of U.S. electricity to come from renewable sources by 2025, and for 30 percent of the federal government's electricity to come from renewables by 2020.


--Proposes investing $150 billion over 10 years in R&D for renewables, biofuels, efficiency, "clean coal," and other clean tech.


--Calls for improving energy efficiency in the U.S. 50 percent by 2030.


--Calls for 36 billion gallons of biofuels to be used in the U.S. each year by 2022 and 60 billion gallons of biofuels to be used in the U.S. each year by 2030.


--Calls for all new buildings in the U.S. to be carbon neutral by 2030.


--Calls for reducing U.S. oil consumption by at least 35 percent, or 10 million barrels a day, by 2030.


--Introduced the Health Care for Hybrids Act, which would have the federal government help cover health-care costs for retired U.S. autoworkers in exchange for domestic auto companies investing at least 50 percent of the savings into production of more fuel-efficient vehicles.


--Supports raising fuel-economy standards for automobiles to 40 miles per gallon and light trucks to 32 mpg by 2020.


--Supports a phaseout of incandescent light bulbs by 2014.


--Cosponsor of the Coal-to-Liquid Fuel Promotion Act. After being badgered by MoveOn and other progressives over the issue, he "clarified" his position by saying he would support liquefied coal only if it emitted 20 percent less carbon over its lifecycle than conventional fuels.


--Has been endorsed by Friends of the Earth Action, in part for his opposition to a summer "gas-tax holiday" that McCain and Clinton support. (FoE Action had previously endorsed John Edwards.)