Obama '08?

Those who have put pencil and paper to the cost for what Obama has pledged to do for us have come up with a staggering sum.

Those who have put pencil and paper to the cost for what Obama has pledged to do for us have come up with a staggering sum. I don't think he has a good grasp on how the economy works or what drives it. So far his solutions have been to propose that we 'punish the rich' and raise taxes. If that alone was the only negative factor, it would be enough for me to look for somebody else to vote for because I am not rich and cannot easily afford to turn over a good deal more to the government than it collects now. If enacted, Obama's proposals will cost me a LOT.

Meanwhile, Engineer, when those who share your point of view actually begin leading by downsizing your houses and vehicles or going to shared communes and foregoing most culinary pleasures, utilizing no more energy than is absolutely necessary, etc. etc., then you will have grounds for telling the rest of us what forgiveness the rest of us should pray for.

Foxfyre wrote:

Those who have put pencil and paper to the cost for what Obama has pledged to do for us have come up with a staggering sum.

What George Bush and the Republicans have done over the last 8 years will continue to be paid for by my children and grandchildren and have benefited us not at all. We spent the babies milk money, essentially, but the baby still needs milk. No we don't have the money, because our drunk husband spent it all. It's about time we got our priorities straight in this country, and I think most Americans see that.

McCain at least does have his head on straight re the role of taxes and spending when it comes to fiscal integrity. Neither Obama or Clinton have provided satisfactory answers to me in either area.

None of them have economic expertise. But their philosophy should inform us as to the kinds of economic advisors they will likely surround themselves with. I trust McCain more than the other two there.

Foxfyre wrote:

Those who have put pencil and paper to the cost for what Obama has pledged to do for us have come up with a staggering sum.

What George Bush and the Republicans have done over the last 8 years will continue to be paid for by my children and grandchildren and have benefited us not at all. We spent the babies milk money, essentially, but the baby still needs milk. No we don't have the money, because our drunk husband spent it all. It's about time we got our priorities straight in this country, and I think most Americans see that.

real life wrote:

engineer wrote:

cjhsa wrote:

B. Hussein Obama wants to lower our standard of living (and raise our taxes):

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said.

Wow, heaven forbid a Presidential candidate tell Americans a hard truth.

Why should Americans need the permission of other countries to eat what they wish, or cool their homes or drive what they have purchased?

Do you envision an America that asks other countries for permission to do these things, engineer?

I envision a country where people realize that the resources we consume are limited in nature and that the selfish and often silly decisions we make have an impact beyond our borders and checkbooks. Several months ago, the governor of Georgia held a prayer session to pray for rain. That struck me as terrible theology. Instead, we should be praying for forgiveness for wasting the bounty of water that routinely falls across the Southeast US. We routinely buy more horsepower than we need, more room than we need, more food than we need, etc. Of course, if you have the money, you can consume as you want, but eventually that behavior will drive the country into the ground. If any candidate wants to point out that the long term success of our country is directly tied to the proper use of our resources, I'm fine with that.

McCain voted against the tax cuts until he saw evidence that they were doing what they were supposed to be doing and then changed his opinion based on the evidence before him.

Wasn't one of the things you guys like to hold over Bush is his bullheadedness for never changing his mind? Jeez, It's so hard to understand what your guys position is. It changes every hour.

McCain voted against the tax cuts until he saw evidence that they were doing what they were supposed to be doing and then changed his opinion based on the evidence before him.

Wasn't one of the things you guys like to hold over Bush is his bullheadedness for never changing his mind? Jeez, It's so hard to understand what your guys position is. It changes every hour.

McCain told ABC's "This Week" that under no circumstances would he increase taxes, and added that he could "see an argument, if our economy continues to deteriorate, for lower interest rates, lower tax rates, and certainly decreasing corporate tax rates," as well as giving people the ability to write off depreciation and eliminating the alternative minimum tax. LINK

engineer wrote:

real life wrote:

engineer wrote:

cjhsa wrote:

B. Hussein Obama wants to lower our standard of living (and raise our taxes):

"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on 72 degrees at all times ... and then just expect that other countries are going to say OK," Obama said.

Wow, heaven forbid a Presidential candidate tell Americans a hard truth.

Why should Americans need the permission of other countries to eat what they wish, or cool their homes or drive what they have purchased?

Do you envision an America that asks other countries for permission to do these things, engineer?

I envision a country where people realize that the resources we consume are limited in nature and that the selfish and often silly decisions we make have an impact beyond our borders and checkbooks. Several months ago, the governor of Georgia held a prayer session to pray for rain. That struck me as terrible theology. Instead, we should be praying for forgiveness for wasting the bounty of water that routinely falls across the Southeast US. We routinely buy more horsepower than we need, more room than we need, more food than we need, etc. Of course, if you have the money, you can consume as you want, but eventually that behavior will drive the country into the ground. If any candidate wants to point out that the long term success of our country is directly tied to the proper use of our resources, I'm fine with that.

Okay, then if somebody is going to tell us all what is reasonable for us to consume, what will it be, toyota priuses, motorcycles, bicycles, or will it be ox carts? And what about a guy that lives 1 mile from work and drives a 1 ton truck, as compared to a guy that lives 50 miles from work that drives a prius. I would remind you that the 1 ton truck guy is a more environmentally conscious person.

I would suggest you re-evaluate what road you really want to go down, when you begin suggesting that people lose their rights to make their own decisions about what to drive, where to live, or whatever. I suppose the government can encourage behaviors by tax policies, but even those go awry many times and accomplish the exact opposite of their intent.

I think all Californians should be forced to turn in their cars and walk/bicycle to work. At least those that live in temperate zones.

Me, I live 35 miles from my office and my boss likes live bodies in seats. It snows here 6 months out of the year. I'll continue to drive my AWD SUV during those 6 months, TYVM.

Here's a link to the complete video from Obama's event in Oregon today where there was a crowd of 75,000 people.

http://www.nwcn.com/video/index.html?nvid=246479&shu=1