Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:38 pm
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Pressure_Mounting_on_IN_and_NC_0506.html

Super-delegate relates the tale of Hillary attempting to buy her vote.

Cycloptichorn

ps

Second one had this to say

Quote:
can change, but the chances are zero that they're going to change - at least, not on the first ballot."


The idea that hundreds of super-delegates are going to defect from Obama, who will be the pledged delegate leader, has never been anything but a pipe-dream.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:41 pm
Need to get to bed... CBS called Indiana for Hillary evidently. Hope to find out in the morning that IN was close and NC was a blowout... or better yet that Obama won both! (Not expecting that for IN tho.)

G'night...
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:49 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
plain truth is the black vote in NC would have gone to OJ Simpson

Not worthy of you or the neighbors of whom you speak.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:52 pm
Harold Ford, Clinton surrogate, is leading his discussion tonight with the serious concept of an Obama/Clinton ticket.

hmm

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:00 pm
watching with fascination from the "northern side" .
"canadian" superdelegate said that their job is to select the "most electable candidate" and NOT the candidate with the most votes to date ???
he further stated that the supers are there to bring "some sanity" to the process !
pretty interesting !
hbg
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:02 pm
sozobe wrote:
Saw elsewhere (Fox) that he won 53% - 40% among white males in NC.

Wrong way around - Clinton won them 53% to 40% (right now it's 54% to 40%).
0 Replies
 
LionTamerX
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:22 pm
NC is looking like a landslide for Obama right now.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:22 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
The basic point here is that there is no simple, universal answer to the question of whether we should engage in public dialogue or negotiations with an unfriendly government, and that anyone on either side of the political debate who advocates such a simple answer is talking out of a non-standard orifice.


Doesn't the outright refusal to talk with other nations defy this? If there is no universal approach/answer, then why limit our ability to approach a problem?

T
K
O


roxxxanne wrote:

checkmate]

Nonsense. I don't exactly follow Diest's point here, but know there is no checkmate involved.

As I believe I clearly indicated, the outright refusal to talk with other nations, simply because of their opposition to us and regardless of the other factors involved in their individual situations o0r the specific issue involved, is foolish and wrongheaded. Thus I believe the Bush Administration is wrong in refusing to talk with Hamas, but possibly right in refusing to talk - in some instances - with Iran (though, as I indicated we could well argue about some individual instances). In the cases of both Hamas and Iran the right policy depends on the individual circumstances, respecting both the government and the individual situation behind the specific issue involved.

I would fault any blanket policy to talk to or refuse to talk to any government under all conditions. In keeping with this I believe the Bush administration has been correct (and very effective) in its talks with North Korea, for the reasons I indicated, and that it is wrong to fault the Administration for its willingness to talk with North Korea, simply because it, at the same time, refuses to talk with Iran. --In every case it depends on the specific circumstances with the government involved and the specific issue at stake.

Clear??
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:28 pm
nimh wrote:
sozobe wrote:
Saw elsewhere (Fox) that he won 53% - 40% among white males in NC.

Wrong way around - Clinton won them 53% to 40% (right now it's 54% to 40%).



I think there might be an age factor involved in the Fox number. Obama did well with younger white men.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:35 pm
52-48 raw vote in Indy!
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:38 pm
ob1 - I'm unsure why you think it's wrong to not talk to Hamas, but it is right not to talk to Iran. I'll agree to a certain point about N. Korea, but as someone stated earlier, how much of their crazy shenanigans has been for the sole purpose of getting our attention? We should be proactive with governments like N. Korea and Iran, not retroactive.

Is that clear?

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:38 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Harold Ford, Clinton surrogate, is leading his discussion tonight with the serious concept of an Obama/Clinton ticket.

hmm

Cycloptichorn


Obama/Clinton or Clinton/Obama. I hope there is a stake driven through the heart of that notion. Two teams of head-strong policy wonks at odds, perhaps, with each other, would be a terrible idea.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:42 pm
Combined results thread #8
by kos
Tue May 06, 2008 at 06:35:22 PM PDT

Indiana

73 percent reporting

% Dels
Clinton 52 15
Obama 48 11

Vote margin: 43,947


North Carolina (Winner: Obama)

50 percent reporting

% Dels
Obama 57 20
Clinton 41 13
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:44 pm
A little part of my heart still hopes that Edwards would be the VP nom. I think with the dems at each other's throats, they need a nice handsome face smiling back to remind us them that we're working for many common goals.

I'm not holding out for it though. I just hope whoever they put in place has that quality.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:45 pm
Looking at the raw numbers, Obama might pick up as much as a 200,000 increase in popular vote margin.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:47 pm
I have to say he just gave a very good speech broadcast on NPR.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:53 pm
High Seas wrote:
The boy Jonathan and his whole kin should be grateful for that fate - if he had been, say, Iranian, he would have fried; no question about it. Yet Iran never spied on the US, bombarded a US ship, or spent the last 60 years on the beg-borrow-blackmail-steal program. And in the immortal words of Sherlock Holmes: "There is nothing lower than a blackmailer."

Some "elements" (as you put it) in the US are getting so fed up with this monstrous, costly, and cumulative catastrophe in the near East, that Obama, whatever his faults, sounds a lot better than his Republican opponent because he grasps that one single element of foreign policy (and domestic counterintelligence).

That was the point. Sorry I wasn't clearer before.

I believe that the Administration has gone too far in publicly criticizing the government of Iran and in calling for sanctions over their nuclear weapons program, while, at the same time, refusing to speak officially with them -- a self-defeating combination. Their critics here have a real point in noting the contradiction inherent in these two positions and its bad effects. I can also think of many good reasons for avoiding unnecessary public associations with the present government of Iran, whose president has such an evident appetite for theatrics and thumbing his nose at us. It is a complex situation that requires a more complex and subtile policy than what we have done so far.

In contrast, the Administration has very effectively managed a complex dialogue with China, Japan, South Korea, and North Korea; occasionally involving a one-on-one dialogue with Pyonyang, when that was crucial, but otherwise sticking to the five-party talks which have been the key to our strategy. It is unfortunate that this level of skill and subtilty has not also been applied to Iran. (It is possible that the political "third rail" of the Israeli lobby may be involved here. Certainly there is plenty of evidence th believe they have an excessive influence on the Bush Administration.)
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 07:57 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
ob1 - I'm unsure why you think it's wrong to not talk to Hamas, but it is right not to talk to Iran. I'll agree to a certain point about N. Korea, but as someone stated earlier, how much of their crazy shenanigans has been for the sole purpose of getting our attention? We should be proactive with governments like N. Korea and Iran, not retroactive.

Is that clear?

T
K
O


Well to some extent Hamas is an agent of Iran, so the mixed approach I suggested for Iran may well correctly apply to them as well. In view of the current tactical situation in Gaza, I can see better reasons for avoiding Hamas than Iran. Beyond that you do have a good point.

Overall I am arguing for fewer and narrower blanket "rules" over whether we should or should not talk to a particular government, and more reliance on the specifics of the government in question and the specific issue at hand. I suspect this may have been what Cyclo was getting at in his unfortunate metaphor. My objection to the metaphor was that, if you really thought about what the words mean, the metaphor doesn't have any meaning -- it is more likely to confuse than to clarify the matter. As we have seen, the issue is already confusing enough.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 08:04 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
plain truth is the black vote in NC would have gone to OJ Simpson


that remark was strictly to f*ck with certain people here and I don't really believe it. Apologies to the real human beings here.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 08:08 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
plain truth is the black vote in NC would have gone to OJ Simpson


that remark was strictly to f*ck with certain people here and I don't really believe it. Apologies to the real human beings here.


No wonder the human race is in trouble if you are considered human. Get help.
0 Replies
 
 

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