engineer
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 01:42 pm
revel wrote:
As fascinating as this dispute seems to be and all of these others issues being discussed, I can't find out how the wind seems to be blowing in either IN or NC for Obama. Has anyone any information?

Outside of a high turnout, nobody's going to publish anything while the polls are open. You might get something like "high turnout in Charlotte favors Obama", but I doubt you'll get much more until this evening.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 01:46 pm
High Seas wrote:
George - that's all well and good but doesn't begin to clear up this latest aggravation:
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3223489#322.


I'm not sure of your point here. I agree the Bush administration is allowing the Pollard investigation to continue, but so did its predecessor. I believe the motivation for this is to be found in elements of our Defense and Intelligence bureaucratic establishments that have long been enraged by Israel's ability to get away with trumping our national interest when it was convenient to themselves, and the repeated thefts of technology and cases of national & industrial espionage that have polluted our joint efforts with them. I think all this may merely be something the politicians of both parties just don't want to take on - even though the Israeli lobby can easily guide them on other matters. (The risk of leaks and other like embarrassments is simply too high.)

(I was peripherally involved in the damage assessment following the Pollard case, and got these impressions then. I believe our boy Jonathan will die in Federal prison.)
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 03:39 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
High Seas wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Cyclo - I get the analogy. I would however abandon it. In this case having a complex analogy only serves to help our conservative friends here account for their ideas.

.......If a budget is proposed on the floor of the senate or congress, the body may choose to approve or deny it. That's black and white. The truth is that most likely, they will instead approve a number they feel appropriate; something between $0.00 and whatever was requested. A grey amount.



No offense, Deist, but if you want to get your Bachelor's Degree (in aeronautical engineering, you claimed at one point) you have to drop this (wrong) approach to fuzzy logic and actually study for your final exams.

If you dropped out of college, never mind!

What is fuzzy logic about this? It's pretty direct. What's your beef?

BTW, it's Aerospace Engineering, and I only have one final left. Smile 10 days until graduation. Smile Smile

T
K
O


Diest, CONGRATS! A little early, but I'm leaving for the Middle East on Thursday for 17-days in the 5-stans north of Afghanistan.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 03:54 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
BTW, it's Aerospace Engineering, and I only have one final left. Smile 10 days until graduation. Smile Smile

Exciting! Smile

georgeob1 wrote:
The basic point here is that there is no simple, universal answer to the question of whether we should engage in public dialogue or negotiations with an unfriendly government, and that anyone on either side of the political debate who advocates such a simple answer is talking out of a non-standard orifice.

Heh Razz
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 05:21 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
The basic point here is that there is no simple, universal answer to the question of whether we should engage in public dialogue or negotiations with an unfriendly government, and that anyone on either side of the political debate who advocates such a simple answer is talking out of a non-standard orifice.


Doesn't the outright refusal to talk with other nations defy this? If there is no universal approach/answer, then why limit our ability to approach a problem?

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 05:26 pm
Diest TKO wrote:
georgeob1 wrote:
The basic point here is that there is no simple, universal answer to the question of whether we should engage in public dialogue or negotiations with an unfriendly government, and that anyone on either side of the political debate who advocates such a simple answer is talking out of a non-standard orifice.


Doesn't the outright refusal to talk with other nations defy this? If there is no universal approach/answer, then why limit our ability to approach a problem?

T
K
O



Checkmate
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 05:28 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
High Seas wrote:
George - that's all well and good but doesn't begin to clear up this latest aggravation:
http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=3223489#322.


I'm not sure of your point here. [........]
(I was peripherally involved in the damage assessment following the Pollard case, and got these impressions then. I believe our boy Jonathan will die in Federal prison.)


The boy Jonathan and his whole kin should be grateful for that fate - if he had been, say, Iranian, he would have fried; no question about it. Yet Iran never spied on the US, bombarded a US ship, or spent the last 60 years on the beg-borrow-blackmail-steal program. And in the immortal words of Sherlock Holmes: "There is nothing lower than a blackmailer."

Some "elements" (as you put it) in the US are getting so fed up with this monstrous, costly, and cumulative catastrophe in the near East, that Obama, whatever his faults, sounds a lot better than his Republican opponent because he grasps that one single element of foreign policy (and domestic counterintelligence).

That was the point. Sorry I wasn't clearer before.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 05:42 pm
Obama wins North Carolina; Networks call it as soon as polls close.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 05:45 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Obama wins North Carolina; Networks call it as soon as polls close.

Cycloptichorn

The question now becomes: what reason will HRC give when she declares that North Carolina isn't an important state after all?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 05:46 pm
joefromchicago wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Obama wins North Carolina; Networks call it as soon as polls close.

Cycloptichorn

The question now becomes: what reason will HRC give when she declares that North Carolina isn't an important state after all?


Well, the path to the WH doesn't run through that state.

Or, NC was just trying to hang with SC so they wouldn't be picked on.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 05:51 pm
66-32 raw vote, hope that holds up!Smile
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 05:53 pm
plain truth is the black vote in NC would have gone to OJ Simpson
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 05:58 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
plain truth is the black vote in NC would have gone to OJ Simpson


Put down the crack pipe and the PBR.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:00 pm
so you disagree.... okay fair enough.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:13 pm
I seem to recall, bear, that there was a time when the older, black, female voters were in the Clinton camp.
I find your comment about blacks voting for O.J. Simpson to be pretty offensive.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:22 pm
Not to pile on, but regardless of how blacks voted, Obama still wouldnt have won NC if he hadnt gotten 40% of the white men as well.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:23 pm
I thought he won every category in NC except white people over 65...?

(Can't remember now where I saw that, toggling between several windows plus have CNN on so I won't necessarily vouch for it.)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:28 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
plain truth is the black vote in NC would have gone to OJ Simpson


What a crock of ****

Axelrod - 'the die has been cast.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:28 pm
sozobe wrote:
I thought he won every category in NC except white people over 65...?

Maybe earlier tonight ... I kept my vow not to look at exit poll data till at least an hour after the polls closed.

Right now the exit poll data for NC on MSNBC shows Obama winning 91% of the black vote, 40% of white men and 32% of white women.

By race and age group, his numbers among blacks hover around 90% through all age groups, while there's a clear slide by age among whites: 56% of whites aged 17-29; 43% of whites aged 30-44; 34% of whites aged 45-59; and just 28% of whites over 60.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Tue 6 May, 2008 06:30 pm
Cool, thanks for the info.


Meanwhile, found it back -- 60, not 65:

Quote:
But Obama won every age group except voters 60 and older - by more than 35 points among those younger than 45. And Clinton's edge with seniors - she won voters 60 and older 54 to 43 percent - wasn't high enough to compensate.


http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/06/schneider-a-few-keys-to-obama%e2%80%99s-nc-win/

Saw elsewhere (Fox) that he won 53% - 40% among white males in NC.
0 Replies
 
 

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