Obama '08?

Let's see Hillary try this...

http://www.newsobserver.com/politics/story/1053885.html

Every bit as relevant to his campaign hopes in NC as the Wright nonsense. Prolly moreso.

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Quote:

"You guys are leaving the next president of the United States wide open."

:-D

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Foxfyre, I aint surprised at your response. Yes I think Obama knows Rev. Wright knows and speaks truth about American history and is looking for change. I think all 3 candidates have lied for purely political reasons. Our complicit mainstream media forces that for their own self protection. When Bushie lied us into war the corporate media spread those lies. They could have published the truth but did not just as they did not over the Gulf of Tonkin lies. When Bushie told his atrocious WMD jokes at the annual media dinner the audience full of "journalists" laughed their asses off. But those Gold Star Mothers whose children died hunting for those WMD did not laugh. There was no more disgusting incident than that laughter at those jokes and further no proof is needed at the madness of the powers that be in the USA. If you care to see and hear that amazing insane moment here it is, link

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sozobe, I didn't hear anything offensive by Wright yesterday. He talked of American offensives that are well documented history. Yes the AIDS thing is extremely offensive to most Americans but as Wright pointed out he has at least done some research on the subject and I dont believe many Americans have. He made a strong point of our selling Saddam WMD and our pushing Saddam to use them. The crimes Saddam was hung for were crimes we wanted him to commit and were complicit in. That is certainly well documented history that the mainstream media largely ignores as they dumb down the American public. America's bilological warfare programs would shock the dumbed down. The fact that the DOD intended to develope a biological weapon that would attack and destroy the human immine system as the HIV virus does is found in the Congressional record when money for the weapon was requested and appropriated. There are those who followed that money trail and researched the science. They've published their findings but how many Americans have read their research? Rev. Wright is not making blind accusations by any means. He's far to intelligent and sincere for that. What he says deserves to be investigated. But I wont be holding my breath waiting for the powers to be to allow that. Before they do they'll do what they've done to trouble making leaders with a platform in the past, assassinate them. That's the USA I grew up in and live in today.

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We've been talking about Obama's response today, but I dont think anyone actually quoted it at length yet, right?

So mebbe useful to post an article that's got the quotes (yes, I know I should just go to the Obama site and post the whole transcript, but I'm too lazy for that right now):

Quote:

Obama denounces Wright

In Winston-Salem, Obama sharply attacks Reverend Jeremiah Wright and the substance of his remarks yesterday, a far sharper disavowal than he gave in Philadelphia last month.

The core of his message: That Wright was not only offensive, but the polar opposite of Obama's own views and politics.

"I have spent my entire adult life trying to bridge the gap between different kinds of people. That's in my DNA, trying to promote mutual understanding to insist that we all share common hopes and common dreams as Americans and as human beings. That's who I am, that's what I believe, and that's what this campaign has been about," Obama said.

"I am outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle that we saw yesterday," he said.

Obama also distanced himself from the man in a way he has been reluctant to in the past.

"The person that I saw yesterday was not the person that I met 20 years ago," he said. "His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but I believe that they end up giving comfort to those who prey on hate, and I believe that they do not portray accurately the perspective of the black church."

"They certainly don't portray accurately my values and beliefs," he said.

"If Reverend Wright thinks that's political posturing, as he put it, then he doesn't know me very well and based on his remarks yesterday, I may not know him as well as I thought either."

"I gave him the benefit of the doubt in my speech in Philadelphia, explaining that he has done enormous good in the church," he said. "But when he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions as the U.S. government somehow being involved in AIDS; when he suggests that Minister Farrakhan somehow represents one of the greatest voices of the 20th and 21st century; when he equates the U.S. wartime efforts with terrorism - then there are no exuses. They offend me. They rightly offend all Americans. And they should be denounced, and that's what I'm doing very clearly and unequivocally here today."

"It is antithetical to my campaign. It is antithetical to what I'm about. It is not what I think America stands for," he said.

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Glad to see Obama finally distancing himself from Wright, but you can bet your bottom dollar that people will make what he said an issue too! Molehill; mountain.

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Even if Obama goes down the line point by point by point, someone will say he has not done enough. This is not going to go away no matter what Obama does because Wright loves the spotlight too much and there are too many people who benefit by encouraging him and providing that spotlight for him. Because his outrageous statements have gotten him the attention he needs to peddle his new book, he will make more and more of them. The man is not dumb. He knows a good moment to exploit when he sees it.

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okie wrote:

Does anyone have the answer to this question - How come Wright is sabotaging Obama? Is it unintentional because he is just an out of control individual and this is what he does and who he is? Or is it because he is knowingly throwing him under the bus by continuing to make a fool of himself? Or is it because he just loves the limelight and he receives it by making outlandish statments? Does he really not want to see Obama succeed, is it a self defeating mindset that permeates this man so completely that he wants to believe a man like Obama could never be elected, so he is going to subconciously help him fail? He strikes me as somewhat intelligent, but also an extremely angry guy, so what is driving him to do what he is doing?

You left out one choice. Wright may feel he is protecting Obama from the perceived increasing dangers as the feeding frenzy rises.

I have to admit I've had some of those thoughts in the last month myself, but have decided I'm still willing to stand along side Obama for as long as he's willing to put himself out there.

If Hillary Clinton ends up being given the nomination, this country will have deservedly earned what it gets from another Clinton presidency and I'll gladly vote for her as my way to stick it to 'em.

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blueflame1 wrote:

sozobe, I didn't hear anything offensive by Wright yesterday.

blueflame, if you were Obama's pastor sounding off, he would probably have to apologize just as ferociously as he did today about Wright. You are pretty far out there, whether you know it or not.

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Butrflynet wrote:

okie wrote:
Does anyone have the answer to this question - How come Wright is sabotaging Obama? Is it unintentional because he is just an out of control individual and this is what he does and who he is? Or is it because he is knowingly throwing him under the bus by continuing to make a fool of himself? Or is it because he just loves the limelight and he receives it by making outlandish statments? Does he really not want to see Obama succeed, is it a self defeating mindset that permeates this man so completely that he wants to believe a man like Obama could never be elected, so he is going to subconciously help him fail? He strikes me as somewhat intelligent, but also an extremely angry guy, so what is driving him to do what he is doing?

You left out one choice. Wright may feel he is protecting Obama from the perceived increasing dangers as the feeding frenzy rises.

I have to admit I've had some of those thoughts in the last month myself, but have decided I'm still willing to stand along side Obama for as long as he's willing to put himself out there.

If Hillary Clinton ends up being given the nomination, this country will have deservedly earned what it gets from another Clinton presidency and I'll gladly vote for her as my way to stick it to 'em.

I don't know about protecting Obama, if this is how he does it, I think it is the wrong approach, as he is only making it far worse. He could stay quiet, or go on a long vacation somewhere and it would probably have blown over more or less.

I detect in your answer that you are a pretty honest individual, and you honestly have pinned alot of hopes in Obama being a new kind of politician, a breath of fresh air. I guess I have been around long enough that I have seen too many politicians, and politics is politics, it is only as good as what it is, it will never offer some kind of new utopia that young people apparently are looking for.

The question is being begged right now, that if Obama was as sincerely angry today as he acted like, how come he didn't become angry with Wright many years ago? After all, I am not one to believe that he is just now finding out what the pastor is about. And I don't think the pastor has suddenly changed, although I suppose it is possible he has taken a more ferocious turn in the last year or two, although I seriously doubt it. We must remember it is not just Pastor Wright, the entire church's foundational philosophy is openly advertised and is a matter of pride, being called Black Liberation Theology. This is not a benign philosophy, and I think it lies at the root of all of this. Wright is not simply an anomaly, but he is an extension of this foundational belief, which I think is poisonous at its root. This is not a matter of a few comments gone awry, it is rather a pattern that has been in place for a long time. Just my opinion, but I think there is plenty of evidence for it.

And I think it actually helps explain some of the comments made by Obama's wife, and some made by Obama, including the mantra, change, which is cloaked in big question marks, exactly what is he talking about. Perhaps we are getting a few hints, I honestly don't know, but suspicions abound. You don't have to listen to the pastor long to recognize an affection for communists and marxists. So I think there is more to the pastor than just racism and bigotry, but thats enough to keep people occupied for now.

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nimh wrote:

Lash wrote:
...

When my pastor offends me, I leave. I kept getting offended, I kept leaving...

...

Not saying that your way of looking at it is wrong; just saying that it's fairly non-standard.

Well the way she looks at it is the way I look at it, and the way I've dealt with the same situation. So I don't know where you come off saying it's "non-standard." I think it's non-standard to attend a church for 20 years when you don't agree with the goofy, racist, and inflammatory anti-American views of the pastor.

Quote:

So no, just because he didnt leave the way you would have done when Wright said stuff he found objectionable, doesnt mean that he must have agreed with it, or that Michelle agreed with it. It just means that they're like many other people and dont look at it like you do. Dont see attending a congregation as a "contract" that automatically makes you an "adherent" of everything the preacher says.

But I wonder -- as I listen to most of the rest of the congregation roaring their approval and getting themselves whipped up to a frenzy, during a particular sermon -- how many times Obama leaned over to his neighbor and said, "Government lies!" as directed by his Pastor. I mean, when you listen to a fiery Wright sermon, it's not a quiet, solitary speech ... he implores the congregation to get involved ... repeat after him ... shout to your neighbor ... etc. I don't have an easy time picturing Mr and Ms. Obama sitting on their hands, clucking their tongues disapprovingly at yet another message of Rev. Wright they disagree with, while the rest of the congregation is clapping their hands, and whooping and hollering.

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Okie, that's not the flavor of "protection" I was referring to. Think about it some more and maybe you'll figure it out.

And no, your assumption as to what attracts me to the Obama candidacy is gravely mistaken. And I haven't drunk any kool aid or dropped any acid or sniffed any glue, and I'm not looking for some new kind of utopia. I can't tell you how furiously angry it makes me to have those kinds of insulting dismissals of my involvment in the election process repeatedly thrown about because I happen to have found a candidate I like enough to go out and canvass neighborhoods for. But thanks for including me as one of the "young people." I was feeling my age in my joints all day today as a weather front rolls in.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

but i thought this wright thing was just a bump in the road... of no consequence and soon to be forgotten?

sorry, can't help it...

Yeah, I remember Roxy telling me that everybody else had already moved on and forgotten about it.

She should have told Wright that.

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Foxfyre wrote:

engineer wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
nimh wrote:
Diest TKO wrote:
Finn - It has been asked before in this thread, and I'd like ot hear your response.

"Because of Rev Wright's influence, what practical fears do you have about what Obama would do in office?"

Answer specifically about what types of policies you are affraid of that would be directly related to Rev Wright.

Now there's a good question that, throughout all this pompous indignation, I havent seen one conservative poster answer... good luck with that.

Then you haven't read my take on it. I don't see it as a matter of fear at all. I see it as a matter of what one aesthetically wants in a President.

I think a lot of Americans don't want a BLACK president who sees America as Jeremiah Wright seems to see it and who apparently condoned that for more than 20 years. They don't want an angry black man for President.

I think a lot of Americans want a president who loves his country, sees it as basically good, and intends to build from that point of view to make it better. I think very few Americans have any problem with that President being a black man.

I think Obama has yet to convince some folks which one of these he actually is.

But why is that? Obama has never presented himself as other than a man who "loves his country, sees it as basically good, and intends to build from that point of view to make it better." If you feel that Rev. Wright doesn't feel that way, then don't vote Wright for President. Obama has never said anything in any forum that would suggest that he doesn't meet your stated requirement.

Well now even if he was one--I am absolutely not saying that he is--would Obama or any other candidate present himself as an angry black man? I mean Obama is quite well educated, obviously quite intelligent, and politically astute. He would know better than to do that.

But nobody.....and I do mean NOBODY.....would believe that a candidate sat in Jerry Falwell's church or John Hagee's church or some other controversial preacher's church for 20+ years without feeling comfortable there and NOBODY would believe that the candidate had never heard the more outrageous rhetoric of such pastors and/or didnt know about it. Especially when he described the pastor as his spiritual mentor and put that pastor on his campaign staff.

Can you honestly say that this would not color your perceptions of the candidate especially as controversial sound bites were aired and printed again and again?

And once it became a problem for the candidate, to THEN say that he disagreed with his pastor and had he known about all that he would have left would ring a bit hollow don't you think? Would you believe him?

And that is the problem that Jeremiah Wright is for Barack Obama. Especially since it is obvious Wright has no intention of shutting up and letting the issue die.

Fox - Thanks for the reply. Here is what troubles me: You state that your concern is with what people want aestetically (highlighted in red above). If you can't come up with a threat that Rev Wright presents, it's irrelavant. If "aestetics" matter that much to you, then I'm hard pressed to take you seriously on matters related to politics. Rev Wright possesses no practical threat.

Next, you make a claim that people don't want a "angry black man" as president? Do we want another dumb white guy? Your language suggests a false concensus, and worse it reeks of the prejudice that minorites should act as the white majority thinks they should. As for the whole dumb-white-guy-thing and the angry-black-man-thing goes, take out race and you've got a dumb guy versus an angry guy.

Pardon me, but advantage goes to the angry guy.

I'm not sure, why you chose to add "black man" to the description, but trust me, it's irrelavant.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that you haven't illustrated how Rev Wright would influence policy etc. This is the largest tell.

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION?

"What types of policies would Obama promote/implement that are directly related to Rev Wright?"

It's a really easy question.

T
K
O

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Diest TKO wrote:

......you haven't illustrated how Rev Wright would influence policy etc. This is the largest tell.

WILL SOMEBODY PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION?

"What types of policies would Obama promote/implement that are directly related to Rev Wright?"

It's a really easy question.

T
K
O

I don't know that it's that easy.

But it is important.

Wright admits that his church is highly political.

And we've gotten a glimpse at just what kind of politics Wright favors.

'Present' Obama has been content to submit himself and his children to Wright's teaching for 20 years, so we have a pretty good indication he agrees with at least a fair portion of Wright's views.

Which ones will he try to implement? And which ones will he try to implement first?

Nobody knows, but there's a lot to choose from. And a lot of it is not attractive.

TUCC reprinted a manifesto from Hamas in their Sunday bulletin. Do you think 'Present' might have some agreement with this group as well?

Currently Obama is talking a tough line, but Ahmed Yousuf, Hamas' top political adviser in the Gaza Strip, has publicly come out supporting Obama, and stating he understands Obama's need during the election to appear to support Israel and he's not bothered by it.

Obama also at first was unwilling to criticize Jimmy Carter for meeting with Hamas.

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RL - Nowhere in your post do you identify a policy related to Rev Wright. For that matter, you don't identify any policy at all.

Be clear about what you are saying.

Are you accusing Obama of being a secret muslim? If so, specifically what is it that you think he would do in office as a muslim? What policies would in put in place?

Answer my questions. They aren't hard but they are direct.

T
K
O

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Quote:

Which ones will he try to implement? And which ones will he try to implement first?

Nobody knows, but there's a lot to choose from. And a lot of it is not attractive.

Since there's so much "to choose from", it won't be hard for you to name one or two of those policies you think Obama might implement.

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Ticomaya wrote:

Well the way she looks at it is the way I look at it, and the way I've dealt with the same situation.

Um, and how's that make it "standard"? You're about as standard as I am, which is to say, not much.

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okie, "blueflame, if you were Obama's pastor sounding off, he would probably have to apologize just as ferociously as he did today about Wright. You are pretty far out there, whether you know it or not." Probably. But what's far out is American history. I'm as far out as MLK or Wright who denounce that history. In my life America has killed countless people in wars of choice built on lies. That's far out. Despite that I have every intention of voting for Barack Obama.

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Obama flip flopping on the pastor issue only gives the advantage to Billary.

Can you say "choke"?

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