Obama '08?

snood wrote:

Real Life wrote:
Which ones will he try to implement? And which ones will he try to implement first?

Nobody knows, but there's a lot to choose from. And a lot of it is not attractive.

Since there's so much "to choose from", it won't be hard for you to name one or two of those policies you think Obama might implement.

To add to Snood's and TKO's question: Since he's been going to that church for twenty years, it seems that it would be easy to point to maybe one or two examples of policies that Obama already has implemented or tried to implement over that time that have showed how he shares the same beliefs as Wright so far. You'd think he would have tried to create a Louis Farrakan memorial, or maybe tried to create a task force to look into this whole government-created AIDS thing, wouldn't you?

I would think Obama would have showed his true racist, America-hating colors in some way shape or form by now. If he hasn't, and has in fact angrily denounced all those crazy-ass statements by the pastor, then I don't see a problem at all. I mean, not counting the various mental problems that RL exhibits on a daily basis here on A2K.

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An equivalence has been drawn, and must continue to be drawn, between Obama and Wright because if one looks at Obama and his record as a senator, as a black man, as an American citizen, as a Christian, as a father, as a mentor and community leader, the equivalence falls apart.
The anti-Obama crowd also must insist that Wright's youtube video epitomizes and characterizes Wright, and not simply highlights some of his less desirable philosophies. What about the other thousands of hours of positive sermons that didn't make it onto youtube?

The persona of Wright in his youtube greatest hits is incompatible with Obama and is antithetical to everything he has done in his life (as far as I have read). But the anti-Obama crowd must take the extreme persona of Wright and cast that as the persona and the norm for Obama even if there have never been any real life manifestations of the Wright persona in him.

The incongruity between Wright and Obama is evidenced in the actions, lifestyle, policies, books, speeches, debates, philosophies, and politics of Obama but what is required by the anti-Obama crowd is a continued insistance that Obama = Wright because without Wright, there is precious little to propagandize to undermine Obama.

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And that's how this all began. They had no dirt on Obama so they had to create some. Hence, Jeremiah Wright.

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are you saying that the video and speeches we've all seen featuring Wright are computer generated or something? made up like the moon landing?

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They have nothing to do with Obama.

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No, but in the words of Guy #2 from the mechanic's yesterday, who cares? There are actual important issues to discuss, why are we spending so much time on the minutes' worth of speeches gleaned from 36 years of sermons of a guy's pastor?

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Finn dAbuzz wrote:

McGentrix wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
It's sad that things came to this. Obama tried to do right by the guy, but his hand was forced by Wright's insistence on making an ass out of himself on national tv, again.
Yup. Just as most of us would do if that loud mouthed, somewhat racist Uncle we all have and love took advantage to boast his blathering.

I still don't understand why anyone gives a rat's ass what Wright has to say. Most of my life; my sister's politics were the polar opposite of my own... and that affected my love and respect for her not one iota. One of my favorite ladies too, saw politics the opposite as well... and was heavily vested in the Russian Orthodox religion to boot. Even her near certainty that I would one day burn in hell had little effect on our mutual love and respect. Her preacher was pretty sure America had it all wrong as well. Was I supposed to give a rat's ass? Why?

This is so much silliness. Ever since the "the war" my grandfather hated Asians. So? I don't. But I never denounced him. In fact; I loved him very much. Does this mean I'm a racist, unfit to hold public office? Huh?

Comparing a relative to a pastor is apples to oranges Bill. You don't get to choose your relatives and it reflects your judgement who you choose as a pastor or other religious figure.

If you worshipped satan, yes that would reflect on your ability to hold office. If you were a Hare Krishna, that would reflect on your ability to hold office. If you were a follower of Jim Jones, that would reflect on your ability to hold office.

People care about what Wright has to say because Obama chose to attend his sermons for 20 years. He is 47 now, that means that since he was 27, he has had one single main religious influence in his life. That reflects Obama's judgement which impacts his ability to be President.

Well said

Yes, that would be a fair answer if it hadn't completely ignored the fact that I do choose my ladies (not family) and the fact that Wright doesn't worship Satan, isn't Hare Krishna nor a follower of Jim Jones. Politically; he's a left wing-nut, (with a somewhat legitimate axe to grind)... and not even that terribly outlandish in the land of Leftwingnuts. Apparently; he is also a very popular preacher and is credited with introducing Obama to spirituality... which as I've said before; I can only assume to be a tremendous gift. Had my Russian girlfriend succeeded in convincing me to see the light of God (and saved me from eternal damnation!) I am quite certain I would be more than a little grateful. You can bet your last buck, even if I were a candidate for President, I would offer her every benefit of the doubt for as long as I could afford to do so politically. You see; however idiotic her politics might be, she would still have been a tremendously important influence in my life. And if she were my baker; I wouldn't be afraid to buy her bread. I know, love and respect lots of people who offer what I consider idiotic political beliefs.

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Butrflynet wrote:

Okie, that's not the flavor of "protection" I was referring to. Think about it some more and maybe you'll figure it out.

And no, your assumption as to what attracts me to the Obama candidacy is gravely mistaken. And I haven't drunk any kool aid or dropped any acid or sniffed any glue, and I'm not looking for some new kind of utopia. I can't tell you how furiously angry it makes me to have those kinds of insulting dismissals of my involvment in the election process repeatedly thrown about because I happen to have found a candidate I like enough to go out and canvass neighborhoods for. But thanks for including me as one of the "young people." I was feeling my age in my joints all day today as a weather front rolls in.

Sorry. And I can identify with dismissals, I think most everyone here on this forum experiences it. In regard to age, I don't know how old you are, so apologies about that. I guess I was generalizing that much of the excitement over Obama has been generated by young people, especially college age, etc., and I assumed you were older than that, but not that old. I think much of Obama's support is among the politically wet behind the ears, and I am sorry if that offends you, from what you say, you are not a newcomer to politics.

Actually, I am curious what you see in Obama as someone you are willing to go out into the streets to campaign for? I ask this with the knowledge that very few people really know what Obama would do as president, as he has really no track record to speak of. I think we know alot more about what McCain will try to do, and even Clinton. As part of the question, forget Obama for part of your answer and explain your political views, are you extremely left leaning, or do you consider yourself what? I presume you have voted Democrat in the last election or elections, nationally and locally? And why?

And you will have to explain your protection theory in more detail, perhaps it is clear in your mind, but I don't see it.

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kickycan wrote:

To add to Snood's and TKO's question: Since he's been going to that church for twenty years, it seems that it would be easy to point to maybe one or two examples of policies that Obama already has implemented or tried to implement over that time that have showed how he shares the same beliefs as Wright so far.

Actually, what has Obama done in regard to any agenda, left or right? I have not seen anything notable, so it is understandable that nobody can point to policies that Obama has implemented. He hasn't implemented much of anything because he hasn't had a chance. That is why people are examining his background and associations in more detail, as they do with any politician, which is deserved and proper. This happens with any presidential candidate, but somehow some people want Obama to be immune to it.

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FreeDuck wrote:

They have nothing to do with Obama.

then why are obama supporters so concerned about defending Obama regarding them?

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

FreeDuck wrote:
They have nothing to do with Obama.

then why are obama supporters so concerned about defending Obama regarding them?

Geezus, really? I thought this game was old hat to you.

The statements have nothing to do with Obama. Obama supporters are defending Obama against guilt-by-association sound clip smears. You know, the kind the vast right-wing conspiracy subjected your girl to all through the nineties.

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kickycan wrote:

snood wrote:
Real Life wrote:
Which ones will he try to implement? And which ones will he try to implement first?
Nobody knows, but there's a lot to choose from. And a lot of it is not attractive.

Since there's so much "to choose from", it won't be hard for you to name one or two of those policies you think Obama might implement.

To add to Snood's and TKO's question: Since he's been going to that church for twenty years, it seems that it would be easy to point to maybe one or two examples of policies that Obama already has implemented or tried to implement over that time that have showed how he shares the same beliefs as Wright so far. You'd think he would have tried to create a Louis Farrakan memorial, or maybe tried to create a task force to look into this whole government-created AIDS thing, wouldn't you?

I would think Obama would have showed his true racist, America-hating colors in some way shape or form by now. If he hasn't, and has in fact angrily denounced all those crazy-ass statements by the pastor, then I don't see a problem at all.

Word.

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Up.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
They have nothing to do with Obama.

then why are obama supporters so concerned about defending Obama regarding them?

Geezus, really? I thought this game was old hat to you.

The statements have nothing to do with Obama. Obama supporters are defending Obama against guilt-by-association sound clip smears. You know, the kind the vast right-wing conspiracy subjected your girl to all through the nineties.[/quote

Obama should have been sharp enough to see this storm coming... whether the storm is accurate or fair has nothing to do with it...

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nimh wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
Well the way she looks at it is the way I look at it, and the way I've dealt with the same situation.

Um, and how's that make it "standard"? You're about as standard as I am, which is to say, not much.

Um, how can you call it "non-standard"?

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kickycan wrote:

snood wrote:
Real Life wrote:
Which ones will he try to implement? And which ones will he try to implement first?

Nobody knows, but there's a lot to choose from. And a lot of it is not attractive.

Since there's so much "to choose from", it won't be hard for you to name one or two of those policies you think Obama might implement.

To add to Snood's and TKO's question: Since he's been going to that church for twenty years, it seems that it would be easy to point to maybe one or two examples of policies that Obama already has implemented or tried to implement over that time that have showed how he shares the same beliefs as Wright so far. You'd think he would have tried to create a Louis Farrakan memorial, or maybe tried to create a task force to look into this whole government-created AIDS thing, wouldn't you?

I would think Obama would have showed his true racist, America-hating colors in some way shape or form by now. If he hasn't, and has in fact angrily denounced all those crazy-ass statements by the pastor, then I don't see a problem at all. I mean, not counting the various mental problems that RL exhibits on a daily basis here on A2K.

He's obviously waiting until he's elected to announce his radical plans. Nobody has claimed he's an idiot.

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

Obama should have been sharp enough to see this storm coming... whether the storm is accurate or fair has nothing to do with it...

Who's to say he didn't? But that's not what you were asking -- you were asking why his supporters were defending him against the smear if it the statements Wright made have nothing to do with Obama. I know you prefer your politicians covered in mud and blood and beer, but I think Obama is doing just fine holding on to his decency.

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Ticomaya wrote:

He's obviously waiting until he's elected to announce his radical plans. Nobody has claimed he's an idiot.

But you dont seriously believe this though, do you?

I mean, you're a smart enough guy, I assume you're just gleefully pulling this thread here as long as it has the potential to cause trouble for the Democrats. But who seriously believes that Obama is a secret radical, sort of like a sleeper cell, who has merely pretended to be a reasonable pragmatist throughout his life, his career as community worker, university lecturer, state senator and US Senator, and his two autobiographical books, just so he can turn around and reveal himself as Farrakhan-like black radical as President?

That's fringe conspiracy nut stuff. The kind of stuff that latter-day Joe McCarthys can sell to knee-jerk Limbaugh fans who automatically assume all leading Dems are closet socialists anyway. But people like you, I assume, are just stirring the **** here right - or do you actually believe this?

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nimh wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:
He's obviously waiting until he's elected to announce his radical plans. Nobody has claimed he's an idiot.

But you dont seriously believe this though, do you?

I mean, you're a smart enough guy, I assume you're just gleefully pulling this thread here as long as it has the potential to cause trouble for the Democrats. But who seriously believes that Obama is a secret radical, sort of like a sleeper cell, who has merely pretended to be a reasonable pragmatist throughout his life, his career as community worker, university lecturer, state senator and US Senator, and his two autobiographical books, just so he can turn around and reveal himself as Farrakhan-like black radical as President?

That's fringe conspiracy nut stuff. The kind of stuff that latter-day Joe McCarthys can sell to knee-jerk Limbaugh fans who automatically assume all leading Dems are closet socialists anyway. But people like you, I assume, are just stirring the **** here right - or do you actually believe this?

Of course he doesn't believe it. But there's nothing better to attack Obama with at the moment.

All this focus on the Dem race has allowed the Republicans to forget, for just a little while, that McCain is a weak ass candidate, the best of a terrible bunch of nominees.

Cycloptichorn

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Ticomaya wrote:

Um, how can you call it "non-standard"?

Because it's hardly the way everyone does it, is it?

Really - I kind of admire Lash's philosophy of walking away, time and again, when hearing something that offends her: "I kept getting offended, I kept leaving". It's very principled.

But that's not what most people do, is it? Most people stay with their congregation, mostly because well, they've bonded with the community, arent just there for the sermons, and decide to weigh it all out. Sermons they dont agree with or even consider outright dumb vs good works that they like, a community of people they're attached to, sermons they do feel inspired by.

Neither would most people agree that attending someone's congregation comes down to "a contract" that makes you an "adherent".

Note - what I was taking issue with in Lash's post is not about, "well but the stuff Wright said was so bad, thats just not right that he stayed, that's a judgement problem." What I pointed out was a logical mistake.

Lash leaves a congregation when something is said that offends her, and feels that sitting in a congregation makes you an adherent of the pastor; so if she keeps attending a congregation that means that she does indeed agree with what is said, and is comfortable considering herself an adherent. Ergo, she argued, unless Wright wasnt saying ridiculous stuff before, the fact that the Obamas stayed in Wright's church must also mean that they agreed with all that Wright said (or at least one of them did).

That doesnt make sense. It doesnt need to mean that at all. It could just mean that the Obamas don't share this belief that "sitting there" in a church makes you "an adherent", and that it's one's duty to walk away whenever you hear something that offends you. They would hardly be alone in that.

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