Obama '08?

blatham wrote:

nimh wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

It was truly insulting to those who were the subject of the remarks

Says someone speaking with the expertise about the lives of blue-collar, small-town Pennsylvania folk that a former government and business executive naturally would have... :wink:

In the meantime, the polls are not showing Obama's remarks to have any effect at all, on balance. So it looks like the only offense taken is by elitist, richly paid professional media pundits and politicians, in their role-playing of how they imagine yer typical blue-collar heartland to feel. Maybe they should get out more.

Average americans ought to get down on their knees and thank George Will, Bill Kristol, Sean Hannity, Charles Krauthammer, Fred Barnes and georgeob...all with their fingers and lives so closely tuned to the simple folk of Pennsylvania. And each with their personal histories so rich in dedicated and selfless, shirtsleeves-rolled-up community outreach programs too. Precisely the fellows to interpret the spirit and daily lives and thoughts of troubled small town Americans. Nothing...nothing at all...elitist about these boys in their presumptions of how small town americans think or ought to think because of their (almost too close for comfort) connections to them average folks who, it is hoped, have better personal hygiene habits that in the old days.

Sad to see Nimh & Blatham resorting to personal attacks in response to an obvious interpretation of the Obama remarks and a restrained forecast about their likely effect.

I'm flattered by the association with Kristol & Krauthammer, but I'm not too keen on the rest.

The fact is I was brought up in a Democrat household - my father was a long-term Democrat Congressman from Michigan (Detroit) - truly the apex of what is now the blue collar rust belt. I don't suggest that necessarily makes me a member of the tribe, but rather that I do have close knowledge of what I was talking about. I too was insulted by Obama's foolish remarks, and saddened to see him toadying up to a bunch of San Francisco loonie liberals.

sozobe wrote:

Obama is likely to a) get a big bump once the nomination is decided (if it's decided in his favor) and b) do really well against McCain in a head-to-head campaign.

No doubt he will get a bounce and he will do well in a head-to-head
campaign, but neither of these will be enough to win on election day.

The Obama ~ McCain debates are going to be must see TV

H2O_MAN wrote:

sozobe wrote:

Obama is likely to a) get a big bump once the nomination is decided (if it's decided in his favor) and b) do really well against McCain in a head-to-head campaign.

No doubt he will get a bounce and he will do well in a head-to-head
campaign, but neither of these will be enough to win on election day.

The Obama ~ McCain debates are going to be must see TV

So, again, are you up for a wager here, Mr. Certainty? Five hundred ought to demonstrate your manliness.

real life wrote:

No, I guess I don't get any 'memos'.

My comments reflect only my own view, not someone else's.

What concerns me is the liberal disdain and outright hostility for those who say what they think.

If liberals have their way with 'hate speech' laws and other such, scenes like this could be coming soon to a town near you...

Real life, aren't you one of the people who have been preaching "disdain and outright hostility" for Obama because of Reverend Wright's "saying what he thinks" during his sermons because they were full of "hate speech?"

You're one of the people who have been pointing to Obama in disbelief when he says his ideology reflects his own views and not someone elses.

Have you become one of those liberal elitists?

(The NRA has accused the group of being a front for the anti-gun lobby.)

georgeob1 wrote:

blatham wrote:

nimh wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

It was truly insulting to those who were the subject of the remarks

Says someone speaking with the expertise about the lives of blue-collar, small-town Pennsylvania folk that a former government and business executive naturally would have... :wink:

In the meantime, the polls are not showing Obama's remarks to have any effect at all, on balance. So it looks like the only offense taken is by elitist, richly paid professional media pundits and politicians, in their role-playing of how they imagine yer typical blue-collar heartland to feel. Maybe they should get out more.

Average americans ought to get down on their knees and thank George Will, Bill Kristol, Sean Hannity, Charles Krauthammer, Fred Barnes and georgeob...all with their fingers and lives so closely tuned to the simple folk of Pennsylvania. And each with their personal histories so rich in dedicated and selfless, shirtsleeves-rolled-up community outreach programs too. Precisely the fellows to interpret the spirit and daily lives and thoughts of troubled small town Americans. Nothing...nothing at all...elitist about these boys in their presumptions of how small town americans think or ought to think because of their (almost too close for comfort) connections to them average folks who, it is hoped, have better personal hygiene habits that in the old days.

Sad to see Nimh & Blatham resorting to personal attacks in response to an obvious interpretation of the Obama remarks and a restrained forecast about their likely effect.

I'm flattered by the association with Kristol & Krauthammer, but I'm not too keen on the rest.

The fact is I was brought up in a Democrat household - my father was a long-term Democrat Congressman from Michigan (Detroit) - truly the apex of what is now the blue collar rust belt. I don't suggest that necessarily makes me a member of the tribe, but rather that I do have close knowledge of what I was talking about. I too was insulted by Obama's foolish remarks, and saddened to see him toadying up to a bunch of San Francisco loonie liberals.

Oh come on george. Remember how you recently described Mike Huckabee? You drew him as a character out of HeeHaw. A charge of elitism against Obama coming from yourself or any of those other names I mentioned is deeply ironic. When's the last time Kristol went bowling or to a pub in small town America, do ya figure?

Each of those people I noted (with perhaps the exception of yourself) are millionaires or multi-millionaires who live in DC or New York's upper west side. Most of them (Hannity the obvious exception) have elite educations. All of you, I think, have lived lives of unique priviledge and with connections to the highest levels of power in America. How many blue collar Pennsylvanians get to hobnob with Cheney and Buckley there in the California forest each year, george?

That any of you guys might presume to speak for the folks you feel were insulted - that you presently understand their daily lives and their sentiments - looks pretty delusional to me. You immediately make yourselves guilty of the elitism you are charging is the issue.

But I'm certainly not surprised to see this from you or these others. It's an ideological centerpiece which you guys are either amazingly blind to or simply repeat whenever the opportunity arises so as to carry forward this element of the ideology.

"But here are the two remaining Democratic candidates, Obama by speaking carelessly and Clinton by piling on shamelessly, doing all they can to make it easy for Republicans to pretend one more time that they are the salt of the earth."

Dear Friends and Fans:

LIke most of you, I've been following the campaign and I have now seen and heard enough to know where I stand. Senator Obama, in my view, is head and shoulders above the rest.

He has the depth, the reflectiveness, and the resilience to be our next President.

kickycan wrote:

Dear Friends and Fans:

LIke most of you, I've been following the campaign and I have now seen and heard enough to know where I stand. Senator Obama, in my view, is head and shoulders above the rest.

He has the depth, the reflectiveness, and the resilience to be our next President.

I used to like The BOSS until I saw him live that is... not very good.



As for Obama, what has he done prior to running for president?

Sad to see Nimh & Blatham resorting to personal attacks in response to an obvious interpretation of the Obama remarks

Netanyahu: 9/11 Was Good For Israel
By M.J. Rosenberg - April 16, 2008, 3:31PM
In a speech yesterday, leader of the Israeli opposition, Binyamin Netanyahu, said that Israel faces many problems but that not everything is bleak.

"We are benefiting from one thing that happened, which is the terror attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, and the Americans' battle in Iraq. This changed US public opinion significantly in our favor."

Netanyahu's remarks echoed those he made on September 11, 2001 when he said about the day's attacks: "It's very good. Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.''

He predicted that the attacks would ''strengthen the bond between our two peoples, because we've experienced terror over so many decades, but the United States has now experienced a massive hemorrhaging of terror.''

Pretty amazing talk for a leader of an allied country although happily not representative of Israelis at large. Still, Netanyahu may become Prime Minister again so this is worth noting. Also, Netanyahu is every neoconservatives favorite Israeli, probably John McCain's too. Feith, Perle, Krauthammer, Bolton, Kristol, Wurmser, Podhoretz (ad nauseam) consider Netanyahu a hero and a mentor.

And this hero and mentor thinks 9/11 was "very good. Well not very good" but good enough. All the more reason that we have to get these neocons far, far away from the levers of power after 1-20-09.

9/11 was good. Iraq ia good. Iran, well, it's just a dream...so far.

H2O_MAN wrote:

kickycan wrote:

Dear Friends and Fans:

LIke most of you, I've been following the campaign and I have now seen and heard enough to know where I stand. Senator Obama, in my view, is head and shoulders above the rest.

He has the depth, the reflectiveness, and the resilience to be our next President.

I used to like The BOSS until I saw him live that is... not very good.



As for Obama, what has he done prior to running for president?

I feel the same way about the BOSS.

as for other stuff Obama's done, here are a few things...

-Obama passed legislation with Republican Senator Jim Talent to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps. The tax credit covers 30 percent of the costs of switching one or more traditional petroleum pumps to E85, which is an 85 percent ethanol/15 percent gasoline blend.

-After a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama worked with law enforcement officials to require the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.

-His first law was passed with Republican Tom Coburn, a measure to rebuild trust in government by allowing every American to go online and see how and where every dime of their tax dollars is spent.

-Obama created the Illinois Earned Income Tax Credit for low-income working families in 2000 and successfully sponsored a measure to make the credit permanent in 2003. The law offered about $105 million in tax relief over three years.

-Obama joined forces with former U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL) to pass the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned gifts from lobbyists. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.

-As a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee, Senator Obama has fought to help Illinois veterans get the disability pay they were promised, while working to prepare the VA for the return of the thousands of veterans who will need care after Iraq and Afghanistan.

-He traveled to Russia with Republican Dick Lugar to begin a new generation of non-proliferation efforts designed to find and secure deadly weapons around the world.

-Obama has been a leading advocate for protecting the right to vote, helping to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act and leading the opposition against discriminatory barriers to voting.

- In the U.S. Senate, Obama introduced the STOP FRAUD Act to increase penalties for mortgage fraud and provide more protections for low-income homebuyers, well before the current subprime crisis began.

-Obama sponsored legislation to combat predatory payday loans, and he also was credited with lobbying the state to more closely regulate some of the most egregious predatory lending practices.

-Barack Obama introduced the Patriot Employer Act of 2007 to provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US; maintain their corporate headquarters in America; pay decent wages; prepare workers for retirement; provide health insurance; and support employees who serve in the military.

-Obama worked to pass a number of laws in Illinois and Washington to improve the health of women. His accomplishments include creating a task force on cervical cancer, providing greater access to breast and cervical cancer screenings, and helping improve prenatal and premature birth services.

-Obama has introduced and helped pass bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of no-bid federal contracts.

-Obama and Senator Feingold (D-WI) took on both parties and proposed ethics legislation that was described as the "gold standard" for reform. It was because of their leadership that ending subsidized corporate jet travel, mandating disclosure of lobbyists' bundling of contributions, and enacting strong new restrictions of lobbyist-sponsored trips became part of the final ethics bill that was signed into law.

Before that, he was a civil rights lawyer and a community organizer in Chicago for about ten or fifteen years.

Obama Support Among "Bitter" Voters Unchanged
No decline in support among low-income, low-education, religious Democrats

Gallup
April 16, 2008

Implications

It certainly appears that, as of April 14 interviewing, Obama's remarks have not hurt him -- either among the Democratic electorate as a whole or among the Democratic constituencies Obama was referring to. Wednesday night's debate may shine a spotlight on those comments and make them known to a wider audience, so the possibility remains that Obama has not completely weathered the storm.

Conceivably, Obama could be hurt more in a general-election context, where voters with the characteristics he describes might already have an inkling to vote Republican, and such remarks could nudge them more in that direction. But Gallup's general-election tracking data -- like that for the Democratic nomination -- have so far shown no deterioration in Obama's standing versus presumptive Republican nominee John McCain.