Asherman
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 04:16 pm
Very well, amend the words to the "bottom of society" in place of "socio-economic order" if that makes your boat float.

I just think that "socio-economic" is a more precise term, and one that can be more reasonably defined. The nouveau riche are often crass and unpleasant people, and so are at the "bottom of society no matter how many zillions they have. On the other hand, a gentleman of good character and reputation is an ornament to any society, regardless of personal wealth or property. I don't think that you're problems with my statement have much to do with good manners, or noblese oblige. My guess is your concern is with those unfortunates who have trouble finding good paying jobs in the legitimate market place. The demi-mode.

How parsing my language makes me "cowardly" is a puzzle, but oh well...
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 04:20 pm
Asherman wrote:
Very well, amend the words to the "bottom of society" in place of "socio-economic order" if that makes your boat float.


I'm not in a boat. Even with your edit, you still blame those at the bottom for being there.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 04:24 pm
Is USA
Tolerant enough to vote a young guy?
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 04:31 pm
So, do you believe that no one could or should be at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, and that its unfair for polite society to avoid boors?

How do you propose to get to that Utopian dream? People aren't equal nor should they be. Our Constitutional system only provides an orderly structure within which each individual can pursue his/her own notion of happiness. There are no guarantees that everyone will have the wealth of Donald Trump, be able to command millions with a song, or perform intricate brain surgery. People take risks. Sometimes they win, and sometimes they lose. Taking big risks, often results in big profits or big losses. Those who are risk adverse, must settle for very modest returns.

Our society provides a middle way where risks are minimized and profits optimized. Get an education, learn a skill, go to work everyday and do your best to build a profit. It really isn't all that hard, and millions upon millions of Americans have done very well within the system regardless of where in life they started out.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 04:47 pm
Are you quite sure sir?
My relatives have another song to sing..
Sorry.
Rama
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 05:49 pm
Quick clarification:
revel wrote:
Nice looking wife; Bill, you all look happy.
Shocked Happy, yes. But my drinking buddy is neither my wife nor my girlfriend.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 06:04 pm
Decide before another barbaric war.
Among the 3 corporate sponsorded candidates my banal/blind/barbaric support is for OBAMA.

I hope this guy will shape/change the system of USA
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 07:13 pm
Asherman wrote:
Who is at the bottom of the socio-economic order?

Those who choose not to get a good education.
Those who believe that working for a living is for saps.
Those who choose to deal and use addictive drugs and intoxicants.
Those who believe that the world owes them not just a living, but luxury.
Those who aren't disciplined enough to hold down regular jobs.
Those who are sexually irresponsible.
Those who believe that their problems are all caused by the "system".
Those who have no initiative, are impatient and little imagination.
Those who are comfortable "just getting along".





Quote:
That is a great thing about this country, individuals can choose whatever life path they please in the pursuit of happiness.


Who are you kidding? Most people are pretty much stuck on the same rung of the ladder that they were born in. Just because you enjoyed opportunities, it doesn't mean everyone has the same opportunity.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 07:40 pm
teenyboone wrote:
There's a lot of hate here. Rolling Eyes

There sure is. From, um, all sides.

I cant even stomach reading back to where I last posted. What a clusterf*ck.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 07:46 pm
Listen kid,
take my advice,
never HATE A song that has sold some million copies."-- Irving Berlin( to Cole Poster)
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 07:51 pm
I'm White, and have no reason to be either proud nor ashamed of it.

I'm man, I enjoy it... but then sex is an enjoyable, if transitory past time. My guess is that most women enjoy being women.

I have no privileges that aren't shared by every other American. I never was given a job due to Affirmative Action. I've attended many colleges and universities, always based on my ability to do well on standard tests. The govenment helped pay for some of that education through the GI Bill that I earned by serving in the military. However, I paid for most of my education while raising a family and working full-time. I'm privileged to pay more in State and Federal Income Tax than most people earn in a year, because I worked hard serving the community for many, many years. Because I'm so "privileged" I get to pay off huge medical bills, that would have been written off if I were a minority, or worked for a minimum unskilled wage.

I walk upright, can look any man in the eye. I have nothing, NOTHING to be ashamed of. Pity? Save it for those who need it. I don't spend much time "pitying" others, I either try to help or get out of the way.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 08:00 pm
"I walk upright,"
I try to enthuse the future generation to uphold decency.
And the future is not so bright as today
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 08:41 pm
Asherman wrote:
So, do you believe that no one could or should be at the bottom of the socio-economic ladder, and that its unfair for polite society to avoid boors?

How do you propose to get to that Utopian dream? People aren't equal nor should they be. Our Constitutional system only provides an orderly structure within which each individual can pursue his/her own notion of happiness. There are no guarantees that everyone will have the wealth of Donald Trump, be able to command millions with a song, or perform intricate brain surgery. People take risks. Sometimes they win, and sometimes they lose. Taking big risks, often results in big profits or big losses. Those who are risk adverse, must settle for very modest returns.

Our society provides a middle way where risks are minimized and profits optimized. Get an education, learn a skill, go to work everyday and do your best to build a profit. It really isn't all that hard, and millions upon millions of Americans have done very well within the system regardless of where in life they started out.


I'm saying that the people on the top of the ladder are kicking out the middle rungs.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 08:53 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
I see that Asherman is still promoting the white racist view of Obama's association with a mainstream church.


Would you say that a church of predominantly white members that promoted the 'White Value System' was a 'mainstream church' ?

Would you say that a church of predominantly white members that proclaimed itself 'Unapologetically White' was a 'mainstream church' ?


Take a look thru the TUCC bookstore online http://tucc.org/store/index.cfm?action=catbrowse&catid=69

Change the word 'black' to 'white' in the titles.

Would this still be a 'mainstream church' ?

TUCC offers their 'mission statement in various forms, including:

'we constantly affirm our trust in God through the cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black community."'

If a church of predominantly white members stated that it had a 'White Worship service' and 'served the White community' , would it still be considered a 'mainstream church' ?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 09:13 pm
Asherman wrote:
Who is at the bottom of the socio-economic order?

Those who choose not to get a good education.
Those who believe that working for a living is for saps.
Those who choose to deal and use addictive drugs and intoxicants.
Those who believe that the world owes them not just a living, but luxury.
Those who aren't disciplined enough to hold down regular jobs.
Those who are sexually irresponsible.
Those who believe that their problems are all caused by the "system".
Those who have no initiative, are impatient and little imagination.
Those who are comfortable "just getting along".

The there are others:

Those who were born with, or developed major mental or health disorders. Those folks need and generally get the needed care from public and private sources. Medical costs are ruinous, but some of the problem is created by having the taxpayer pickup tabs submitted by Doctors and the Health Care Industry designed to maximize profit. Health care can reduce a middle-class family (whatever that is) to poverty in very short order.

There are those who, after a lifetime of honest work find themselves and their skill set obsolete. A temporary dole exists to help the suddenly unemployed. There are retraining programs available, but for some adaptation is too difficult. The Rust Belt isn't going to suddenly recover jobs that left long ago. The people there have to understand that and adjust their expectations to something more realistic. Some who once made high wages were improvident, they didn't save, they chose to go into debt and now the chickens have come home to roost. People boubht real estate on decidedly poor terms (bad judgment), thinking that they would hold on a little while and sell for huge profits... whoops, the bubble burst and innocent people now have to pay the price.

There are those who chose to "follow their Bliss", and turned their backs on material success. That is a great thing about this country, individuals can choose whatever life path they please in the pursuit of happiness. If a person chooses a path that is highly risky, or that holds little in the way of economic reward or security, how is that Society's problem? If you run away and join the circus, don't later complain that all you are fit for is cleaning up after elephants. Some out of sense of patriotism or duty choose to enter the military, and frankly they don't get enough compensation for what we as a nation expect from them. Teachers don't make a lot of money, and perhaps educational system ought to pay more.

There are those who apparently are just plain unlucky. If they found the winning Lotto Ticket in the trash, they'd misplace in on the way to collect. That's the way the cookie crumbles, and society can't make everyone equally lucky, or unlucky. Actually, the attempt to "fixf" these sort of inequities almost invariably makes things worse for more folks than are ever "helped".


Here are the myths that fuel left-wing doctrine, and require them to condemn your post:

1) The vast majority of "well-off" people in this country have never had to suffer or struggle, but have had their success handed to them.

2) The vast majority of "well-off" people in this country enjoy their status because they are either immoral and greedy, or self-absorbed and horribly materialistic.

3) Being "well-off" implies a failing of personal character.

4) Being "unfortunate" implies nobility and a strength of character.

5) The vast majority of people in this country who find themselves at the bottom of the socio-economic pyramid are there not only through no fault of their own, but because of the deliberate mechanizations of the "well-off" to place them there.

6) There is no such thing as personal accountability, unless one is "well-off". A junkie shooting up in a tenament hallway can't be blamed for his predicament, but a fat-cat Wall Street banker is so venal that not only is he accountable for his evil, so are his children who are fair game for low-lifes like Bruce Marks and his fellow NACA thugs.

7) People born into poverty, especially if they are African-American, cannot do anything to rise above their circumstances.

8) Equity is "well off" Americans supporting "disadvantaged" Americans for as long as the "disadvantaged" desire.

9) Humans who believe they can manipulate ecological forces are guilty of hubiris and ignorance, while those who believe they can manipulate economic forces are enlightened and and full of grace.

10) It is not only acceptable, but understandable why "advantaged" liberals (as opposed to the "well-off) will do whatever it takes to prevent their children from going to integrated schools.

There are more, but these 10 will do for now.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 09:32 pm
asherman
"I'm White,( none of the humanity will creidt for your colour)
and have no reason to be either proud( thanks for humility)
nor ashamed of it."
( once again none respect a person because the skin colour)

let us not divert our attention with the main topic.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 09:36 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
Who are you kidding? Most people are pretty much stuck on the same rung of the ladder that they were born in. Just because you enjoyed opportunities, it doesn't mean everyone has the same opportunity.


And with that attitude, they are guaranteed to remain there.


Unless, of course, they win the lottery.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 09:38 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
let us not divert our attention with the main topic.


It might help that goal if you cease posting your inane ramblings.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 09:44 pm
It might help that goal if you cease posting your inane ramblings
Yes sir.
But for the word
" INANE"
your advive is perfect
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Sun 6 Apr, 2008 09:52 pm
"The best way to make a fire with two sticks is to make sure one of them is a match." — Will Rogers
0 Replies
 
 

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