Asherman
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 02:42 pm
Ramafuchs,

We don't regard the two party system that has served this nation so well for over two hundred years as "rotten". It is a system that resists extremism, and tinkering in pursuit of popular mania. This countries political system was artfully designed to preserve the moderate center, and to prevent the sugar coated inducements of demagogues from overturning our basic liberties.

Our system isn't designed to produce perfection, and it presupposes that nothing man-made can ever be "perfect". We only strive for the best practical solution to each problem as it arises. Bit by bit progress does occur, and bit by bit our errors are expunged.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 02:49 pm
There has not been a "two party system" for two hundred years.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 02:54 pm
Asherman


"Ramafuchs,

We don't regard the two party system that has served this nation so well for over two hundred years as "rotten". = My word rotten stands
It is a system that resists extremism, and tinkering in pursuit of popular mania. = extremism is there to see
This countries political system was artfully designed to preserve the moderate center, and to prevent the sugar coated inducements of demagogues from overturning our basic liberties. = I agree

Our system isn't designed to produce perfection, and it presupposes that nothing man-made can ever be "perfect". You are perfect in this observation
We only strive for the best practical solution to each problem as it arises. Bit by bit progress does occur, and bit by bit our errors are expunged.= I extend my support for this noble venture.
Rama
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 02:55 pm
I disagree Setanta. The Democrats were closely related to the Jeffersonian political philosophy until FDR took up the cause of Social Engineering as a Federal responsiblity during the Great Depression. The Republican Party is the modern heir to the Federalist political philosophy. Both have evolved to some extent to remain relevant to changing circumstance.

On the other hand, if you want to contend that both decidedly Centerist, with only their radical wings clearly distinguishing one from the other, that I could easily agree with.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 03:02 pm
You can disagree to your heart's content--you'll still be wrong. By 1820, there was only one political party. Jackson created the Democrats from the wreck of the Democratic-Republicans, so there were briefly three parties. The National Republican party died, along with the rump of the D-R, but the Whigs made it two again, and the Know Nothings made it three. There were four candidates in the 1860 election, all of whom polled significant numbers of votes. It has only been since the American Civil War that there have usually (but not always) only been two parties.

Republicans and Democrats close ranks to exclude third parties, certainly. And it suits their propaganda to claim it's always been so that we have "the great two party system" (spare me, please). Are you an unconscious shill for that propaganda, or do you actually believe that?
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 03:07 pm
Winston Churchill's word in German language

" Ein kluger mann macht nicht alle Fehler selber.
Er gibt auch anderen eine Chance."
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 04:11 pm
revel wrote:
Feel good capitalizing and coloring that Finn buzz?


Whoahhh...revel gets salty!

Actually it comes with that color, and no the act of capitalizing doesn't affect my mood one way or the other. However,the sight and sounds of Gin Blossom Teddy making a fool of himself always puts a bounce in my step.

This little episode was a classic and far the worse gaffe than Ashcrofts. Funny though, you can't hear any boos in the background of Aquaman's clip, and I certainly don't recall anyone suggesting that his slip was intentional.

I do look forward to the continued public spectacle of The Hayannis Port Sybarite's further decent into dotage.I'm betting that he will provide us with even better theater than gnarled old Strom Thurmond admonishing a witness during the Clarence Thomas hearings to "TALK INTO THE MACHINE!"

(You know that capitalization didn't give me a thrill either. Am I missing something? A technique you can recommend?)
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 04:23 pm
The final and most critical component of an Obama alternative to the failed Bush-McCain policies is to instill confidence in the American people.
Poll after poll has indicated Americans believe the US in headed in the wrong direction and don't approve of the President's handling of the economy [9].
Senator Obama, with his teamwork message, we're all in this together, can both instill confidence in Americans and motivate them to form the new consensus necessary to overcome our nation's daunting problems.

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/print/13665
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 04:30 pm
Please stay on topic, guys.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 04:34 pm
I stick to the topic
and dare not to influence the view's of others.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 04:41 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
revel wrote:
Feel good capitalizing and coloring that Finn buzz?


Whoahhh...revel gets salty!

Actually it comes with that color, and no the act of capitalizing doesn't affect my mood one way or the other. However,the sight and sounds of Gin Blossom Teddy making a fool of himself always puts a bounce in my step.

This little episode was a classic and far the worse gaffe than Ashcrofts. Funny though, you can't hear any boos in the background of Aquaman's clip, and I certainly don't recall anyone suggesting that his slip was intentional.

I do look forward to the continued public spectacle of The Hayannis Port Sybarite's further decent into dotage.I'm betting that he will provide us with even better theater than gnarled old Strom Thurmond admonishing a witness during the Clarence Thomas hearings to "TALK INTO THE MACHINE!"

(You know that capitalization didn't give me a thrill either. Am I missing something? A technique you can recommend?)


Embarrassed Didn't realize it was a link. Just thought you felt the need to Spell that out in colors and captitalize it.

When one side has made a topic of his name and have made much of where he attended school; it can be forgiven if Obama supporters are quick to judge a mistake like that from someone of Ashcroft political side than Kennedy's side and given the fact that he was supporting Obama at the time that he made the mistake.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 05:13 pm
A week or two old, but some interesting bits in these ruminations about Obama's race speech:

Obama took the risk to confront race relations in America

E.g.:

Quote:
Race relations have devolved into a tit for tat of racial scandal, accusation and defensiveness ("You're a racist." "No, I'm not. You're just playing the race card.").


Quote:
This was a gutsy move: It's possible that much of Obama's support among white voters came from people who saw Obama's candidacy as a free pass on racial justice issues. Instead of a free pass, Obama offers an arduous path, slogging through our unresolved racial anxieties. But he does offer a way through.


I thought that was a good point, in particular. I've had my doubts at times about Obama's "post-racial" appeal, and how it seemed to be embraced by many middle-class whites as a kind of get-out-of-jail-free card. If you vote for Obama, it'll be some kind of instant redemption, making all those pesky reflections about the continuing role of race in deprivation redundant at once. No more vaguely guilty feelings about stuff like the immense overrepresentation of blacks in jails, and how they got there partly through a justice system slanted squarely against them. You've voted Obama, you're clean!

So I liked this observation. And yet of course it instantly makes me worry about its possible impact over time on Obama's chances. People dont generally voluntarily opt for fraught conversations about sensitive issues. The instant racial redemption card would have been a much easier sell.

Quote:
This means that rather than simply repudiate, we must try to understand people whose views may shock and offend us. It's a common politically correct trope today that whenever someone is "offended" - especially about an issue of race or gender - the conversation stops and the offending parties must repudiate their statement. But [h]onest dialogue about difficult and often personal issues will necessarily involve some bruised feelings.


Quote:
America's racial injustices are a legacy of our nation's explicit racist past. Today, many urban neighborhoods and schools are more segregated than during the Jim Crow era, the incarceration rate of young black men is much worse than during that era, joblessness in poor black communities is so bad that many people in such neighborhoods don't know anyone with regular employment in the mainstream economy.

These inequities aren't, by and large, the result of ongoing racism - they're the legacy of the unaddressed racism of the past. But they are real social evils that provoke understandable anger among many African Americans. That anger is often misdirected [..] But Obama was right not to simply reject that anger and the legitimate grievances that underlie it.


Quote:
The speech wasn't perfect. Obama was characteristically vague on specifics, declining to suggest how he would address the racial inequities that we continue to face. And although he was right to suggest that, in many ways, racial justice issues are part of the larger questions of economic equality and job security, it's also the case that some racial issues [..] will require distinctively race-conscious solutions.

Obama has been understandably reluctant to address explosive questions such as affirmative action and race-conscious integration head on, but segregation remains the single greatest unaddressed legacy of Jim Crow-style racism, and colorblind social policies will not be enough to change it.


Quote:
But these are minor cavils. Obama's speech was the boldest and most direct statement on race relations by a major political figure in more than a generation. His willingness to take the risk of confronting one of America's most volatile and intractable problems head-on is striking. It gives us sense of how Obama might use his [..] rhetorical skills not just to win elections, but, also to lead and to govern.


Made me curious about the author:

Quote:
Richard Thompson Ford is a law professor at Stanford University and author of "The Race Card: How Bluffing About Bias Makes Race Relations Worse," published by Farrar, Straus and Giroux.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 05:18 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
Please stay on topic, guys.


We stay on topic as much as you do.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 05:21 pm
It's not like that's difficult to do, MM.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 05:23 pm
Snippet from the news:

Quote:
Presidential candidate Barack Obama [..] ridiculed likely Republican nominee John McCain on Wednesday for offering "not one single idea" to help hard-pressed homeowners facing foreclosure.

"George Bush called this the ownership society, but what he really meant was 'you're-on-your-own' society," Obama told a town hall meeting here [..]. "John McCain apparently wants to continue this."
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 05:30 pm
Capitalism has bought their soul. - RexRed

capitalism is
despicable
deplorable,
detestable
detrimental
devoid of decency dmocracy and docorum
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 05:32 pm
In the category "oh my god, see, he's quoting the Nation!", this factoid about the number of people who saw Obama's race speech on YouTube. And this was back on March 25:

Quote:
OBAMA'S YOUTUBE SPEECH TOPS TV RATINGS...

[..] About 3.8 million people have now watched Barack Obama's Philadelphia address through the campaign's official YouTube channel [..]. "It is the highest viewed video ever uploaded by a presidential candidate to YouTube [..]," says Steve Grove, who directs News and Politics for YouTube.

Aside from the Obama channel, which promotes videos through blogs, news sites and supporter networks, another 520,000 people watched excerpts of the speech uploaded by random YouTube users.

Taken together, the total YouTube viewers for Obama's speech over the past week beat all the cable channels combined. Last Tuesday, about four million viewers tuned into one of the three cable channels to watch the speech.

This is not the first time that Obama's YouTube audience has rivaled cable news. His second most popular video ever, a rebuttal to President Bush's final State of the Union, drew 1.3 million views. The President's actual address reached 3.2 million homes through a Fox News broadcast [..]
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 05:34 pm
Wow! 3.8 million?! I knew the number was high but not that high.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 05:42 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
capitalism is
despicable
deplorable,
detestable
detrimental
devoid of decency dmocracy and docorum

Substituting alliteration for serious analysis is a simply annoying kind of shallow avoidance.
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Fri 4 Apr, 2008 05:45 pm
3.8 million! Do we need a dialogue on race? ALL the time! Cool
0 Replies
 
 

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