Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sat 29 Mar, 2008 07:50 pm
It is real complicated, RJB. If you click on that link to the Burnt Orange Report, they have a huge page full of explanation on how the primary voters are connected to the caucuses and the caucus delegates are connected to the county conventions and how the county convention delegates are connected to the state convention and the state convention delegates are connected to the national convention and the national convention delegates are connected to a nominee.


It gives new meaning to the word "complex."
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sat 29 Mar, 2008 07:52 pm
The easy answer is there are a total of 7,649 county delegates to be allocated.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sat 29 Mar, 2008 07:55 pm
Here's a good summary of some of the info at that link:

Quote:
There are "national" Superdelegates from Texas, and "state" Superdelegates from Texas. Here's the big difference:

The "national" Superdelegates are the ones who get to cast individual votes at the national convention. We've been tracking them here in Texas for some time -- you can, too, by going to our TX Superdelegate Watch page.

The "state" Superdelegates is the same premise as the national system, only at the state level. There are 351 "state Superdelegates" from Texas, made up of the SDEC membership from each County, and the County Chairs from each County. In other words, if you are on the SDEC or serve as a County Chair, you automatically get to go to the State Convention, where you can cast a vote for either candidate.

Two important things to remember:

There are going to be 7,298 delegates allocated to the State Convention via the process that is occuring over the weekend for the state convention.
Therefore, about 4.5% of the total delegates to the State Convention are "Superdelegates" -- 351 of the total 7,649 delegates
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Sat 29 Mar, 2008 07:56 pm
I am not as dumb as I look, B'net. My understanding is that this phase of the TX thing means little re delegates. But the "popular vote" that you are reporting could be significant.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Sat 29 Mar, 2008 08:00 pm
Huh?

I'm not reporting popular votes. I'm reporting the percentages of county conventions that have chosen delegates to represent candidates at the state convention.


And what does being dumb or smart have to do with it? Sorry I tried to answer your question.

Geezus...
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Sat 29 Mar, 2008 08:07 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
MM,

In case you haven't seen it before, here's the text of Obama's speech in August 2007 about his foreign affairs polcies:

http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070701faessay86401/barack-obama/renewing-american-leadership.html?mode=print

I read it. A couple of things stuck out. This quote:

"At moments of great peril in the last century, American leaders such as Franklin Roosevelt, Harry Truman, and John F. Kennedy managed both to protect the American people and to expand opportunity for the next generation. What is more, they ensured that America, by deed and example, led and lifted the world -- that we stood for and fought for the freedoms sought by billions of people beyond our borders."

Does Obama realize Truman dropped two big ones on Japan to end WWII? And JFK came up pretty short with the Bay of Pigs, so I wouldn't use JFK as a great example. Does he realize FDR rounded up tens of thousands of Japanese Americans and placed them in camps? Did Obama even write this speech? I find the speech somewhat inconsistent with the image that Obama portrays now, and that of what his followers believe him to be, and also what the new left wants their president to be. I seriously doubt today's left or liberal supporters of his would love a Truman for example, and would desire a Truman foreign policy.

He talks about rebuilding the military, what does he think Bush has attempted to do, in contrast with what Clinton did to it? Consider the opposition in Congress from the Democrats for rebuilding the military, starting at least with Reagan. I don't see it. Yet Obama claims to want to have a military and use it after the example of FDR, Truman, and JFK????? I will have to see that to believe it.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Sat 29 Mar, 2008 08:13 pm
Chill, B'net. I am as dumb as I look. I was attempting to say that this phase of of the TX delegate race is very confusing.
How significant is it that, as you report, Clinton has 42% and Obama has 56%? 42% or 56% of what? And what is the prize in TX that might be determined tonight?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 07:18 am
mysteryman wrote:
Butrflynet wrote:
What is the typical dem policy?


Attacking any repub policy, without bothering to see if its a good policy or not.


You know this is not true; most democracts were in favor of the last gulf war with the first bush; they were in favor of the war in Afghanistan. It was only the Iraq war that some democrats were not in favor with all along and we were right in everything we said and you guys were wrong in everything you said.

I am just not sure exactly what Ronald Reagan did to merit anything positive; maybe saying the words, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." But perhaps Obama meant Ronald Reagan was less of a knee jerk reactionay president than the one we have now and that is what we need to return to.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 07:28 am
The Texas stuff is crazy. It's been bothering me that it was uncritically reported as a win for Hillary -- FreeDuck told me that CNN then changed its graphic to striped (for the state, rather than Hillary blue), which made me happy. It looks possible that it'll end up being a win for Obama. It seems like Hillary had a pretty close win in the primary, and he'll have a larger win in the caucus, which could end up to be a net win. And, again, the caucus DOES count:

Quote:
"The doors open at 7 and they close at 7:15. It would be tragic if Hillary were to win this election in the daytime and somebody were to come in at night and take it away."


That's Bill Clinton speaking before the TX primacaucus -- he's saying that it can be taken away, and looks like Obama may have. Not finished yet.

Quote:
Obama led Clinton 59 percent to 41 percent in results reported from conventions held across the state before counting stopped for the night -- the latest stage of a process that prompted frustration and challenges from supporters of both candidates. Obama showed strength later in the count after his rival built a 60-40 edge in Saturday's initial results.

Results were in from about half of the approximately 280 conventions before the tallying was suspended for the night.

[...]

A total of 67 national convention delegates are ultimately at stake in the Texas caucuses, and party conventions throughout the state Saturday were the latest effort to divvy up the prize. It appeared unlikely the bottom line would be immediately apparent for Obama and Clinton in their drawn-out Texas wrangle.


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Texas-Caucus.html
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 07:35 am
Quote:
I find it interesting that Obama seems to be going against that by actually admitting to wanting to use the Reagan- Bush foreign policy as a guide for his own (if he gets elected).


I think that is a very canny move, geared to the independents and the undecideds. Whatever I think of Obama, it is obvious that he is an extremely bright individual.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 07:56 am
revel wrote:

You know this is not true; most democracts were in favor of the last gulf war with the first bush;


If the votes of members of Congress are any indicator I'd have doubts about that claim.

When Gulf War I (1991) was building 45 out of 55 (82%) Democratic senators and 179 of 265 (66%) Democratic House members voted to oppose that war.

Compare that to the 21 of 49 (43%) Democratic Senators and 126 of 207 (61%) Democratic House members voted against the use of force in Iraq.

It would appear that more Democrats were against Gulf War I (1991) then were against the use of Force in Iraq (2002).

Public opinion polls from early January 1991 (just prior U.S. action) showed general public support for Gulf War I to be between 44 and 49% so I can't see how "most Democrats" could have considered to have been in favor of that war prior to it starting.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 08:20 am
Super Delegates Turning to Obama?

Breaking Free
03.28.08 -- 11:51AM
By Josh Marshall

It appears that we may be seeing the first signs of the long predicted super delegate move against Sen. Clinton. Casey's endorsement today of Obama is a clear sign -- he'd been pledged to neutrality. Also of note is Dodd's call to bring the race to a close and Leahy's call for Sen. Clinton to get out of the race. On the one hand that's hardly surprising. They've both already endorsed Obama. So of course they want him to win it. But it's also a line they've been unwilling to cross to this point -- and a high hurdle for a fellow senator.

What's caught my eye even more (and we're putting together a piece on this) has been the trickle of comments -- often only noted in local papers -- from Clinton super-delegates who are maintaining their support for Hillary but also saying that that support either may or will change if Obama wins the majority of the pledged delegates.

There are clearly a number of forces in play here, not least of which is the clock and the math. But also playing a clear role are the initial signs that Obama has weathered the Wright controversy relatively unscathed. And perhaps more than anything the fact that in the last week or so the Clinton campaign has just descended into something like an all-night shark hop.

The letter from Hillary's top funders threatening to cut off funds to the DCCC if Pelosi wouldn't change her position on pledged delegates was clumsily goonish, but more than that just silly. As Atrios notes, about a third of the superdelegates are members of the DCCC, i.e., Democratic members of Congress. Presumably it's not a strong argument for them.

The Bosnia thing would be a couple days of embarrassment if it weren't for the fact that it was her speech line in an argument that is fundamentally bogus -- namely, her claim that she has significant foreign policy experience in the legislative and executive branches. Again, as I've said before, an argument she doesn't need to make. Many great commanders-in-chief have come to the presidency without such experience. But her campaign's arguments on this front have been an insult to one's intelligence.

And now there's this.

In a conference call with Texas supporters, as reported by ABC News ...

"Right now, among all the primary states, believe it or not, Hillary's only 16 votes behind in pledged delegates," said Bill Clinton, "and she's gonna wind up with the lead in the popular vote in the primary states. She's gonna wind up with the lead in the delegates [from primary states]."

"It's the caucuses that have been killing us," he added.

Support for Bill Clinton has been a foundational part of my political identity. But I just find this sad. Perhaps especially because of that. Newsflash: Mitt Romney is ahead in the popular vote among the states that he won. It's not quite that silly. But it's close. Hillary's ahead if you lop off half the nomination process. And that's the thing, she's not even ahead among primaries. As I've noted previously, I'm a bit of a caucus skeptic. But even among primaries she's not ahead. The only rationale for a dim view of caucuses is their relatively low turnout compared to primaries. But it's really not clear to me what the rationale is for writing off the votes of the people who actually participated.

But this is the essential silliness of this argument or perhaps its purpose, that it pulls you down into this rabbit hole of nonsense that momentarily distracts you from its essential ridiculousness. It's like the Patriots on their final drive against the Giants saying that if you went by just touchdowns they were actually tied.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 08:25 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
I find it interesting that Obama seems to be going against that by actually admitting to wanting to use the Reagan- Bush foreign policy as a guide for his own (if he gets elected).


I think that is a very canny move, geared to the independents and the undecideds. Whatever I think of Obama, it is obvious that he is an extremely bright individual.


For anyone else it would be a major flip flopping offense and a demonstration of how the candidate did not possess the character it took to govern. For obama it's a canny move by a bright individual. the Obama spell.

et tu, Phoenix? Laughing
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 08:38 am
The Chickens of Identity Politics Come Home to Roost?
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 09:03 am
This should be interesting.

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/3/21/18435/0791

:wink:
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 09:08 am
Obama people calling Hillary Delegates in Texas

Hilarious - she nails him at the end. He hangs up on her.

Laughing
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 09:25 am
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:

Hilarious - she nails him at the end. He hangs up on her.

Laughing


If you find that hilarious, you need to get out more.

Maher on Hillary's Lying VIDEO

"Hillarious?" [sic] I don't know but most people will find it at least funny.

Warning: Adult content so nappyslut should avoid it.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 09:40 am
Roxxxanne wrote:
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:

Hilarious - she nails him at the end. He hangs up on her.

Laughing


If you find that hilarious, you need to get out more.

Maher on Hillary's Lying VIDEO

"Hillarious?" [sic] I don't know but most people will find it at least funny.

Warning: Adult content so nappyslut should avoid it.


I think you've posted that one before. We also know you would happily vote for a liar.

Roxxxanne wrote:
Except that I, as a loyal Democrat and as someone who has always liked Hillary, will ENTHUSIASTICALLY support Senator Clinton if she somehow wins the pledged delegate count. Even if she steals the nomination, I will still vote for her.


Figures.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 09:47 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
I find it interesting that Obama seems to be going against that by actually admitting to wanting to use the Reagan- Bush foreign policy as a guide for his own (if he gets elected).


I think that is a very canny move, geared to the independents and the undecideds. Whatever I think of Obama, it is obvious that he is an extremely bright individual.


For anyone else it would be a major flip flopping offense and a demonstration of how the candidate did not possess the character it took to govern. For obama it's a canny move by a bright individual. the Obama spell.

et tu, Phoenix? Laughing


Mais non, monsieur!

I think that most people know that I am NOT voting for Obama. He is far too left wing for my tastes. I believe that I am simply giving credit where credit is due. I think that he is one of the brightest individuals in politics today. He just does not happen to share MY politics.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Sun 30 Mar, 2008 09:47 am
I would rather vote for a liar than a doddering, dangerous mental defective.
0 Replies
 
 

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