Yeah, this is beautiful , blueflame.
How do we know Obama's church is a good one?
Because the church hierarchy says so.
Glad to see their priorities are set on the right course.
Quote:"It's everything a Christian community is supposed to be," says Gray, who has been working with Trinity UCC for the past three years to develop a new UCC congregation in Gary, Ind. "Trinity has given well over $100,000 in support of its partnership with us...........
What did you think the church official was going to say?
Unreal,when are you going to back up your claim that the media is criticizing Obama for associating with racists?
surreal life wrote:How do we know Obama's church is a good one?
Because they have done a lot of great work.
Hillary insults voters in attack on Rev. Wright
March 26, 2008
Recommend (89)
BY MARY MITCHELL Sun-Times Columnist
What I find the most sickening about politics is that some politicians think the American people are idiots.
No, strike that
Sweet: Hillary retaliates, rips rev amidst her false claim Wright cancels Houston appearances, citing security Clinton: 'He would not have been my pastor'
Some politicians depend on them being idiots. That's how they get elected.
For instance, what are voters supposed to believe about Sen. Hillary Clinton's back-handed criticism of Sen. Barack Obama's decision not to disown the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., his former longtime pastor?
After three weeks of acting as if the cat had her tongue, Clinton coyly told reporters on Tuesday that "he [Wright] would not have been my pastor."
"You don't choose your family, but you choose what church you want to attend," she said.
Voters who are still trying to sort out fact from fiction with respect to Trinity and Wright are not supposed to notice that Clinton is taking the low road.
Instead of following Obama's lead and using this incident to seek racial reconciliation, Clinton is further fanning the flames by attempting to paint herself as the more racially sensitive candidate.
"You know, I spoke out against Don Imus, saying that hate speech was unacceptable in any setting, and I believe that," Clinton said. "I just think you have to speak out against that."
Since Obama has already spoken out against Wright's remarks, Clinton is simply trying to milk the controversy for political advantage.
But Americans are supposed to be too dumb to see that.
Indeed, the fact that Clinton found her voice on this issue on the same day she was outed as having misstated her Bosnia experience is merely a coincidence.
Is it Clinton's fault that she was asked about the Wright controversy during an editorial board meeting with the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review?
Is it her fault that she was put on this spot at the same time some of the media were grilling her about her embellished account of her 1996 Bosnia trip?
Of course not.
Nor is it her fault that the American people seem to be more upset by Wright's remarks about race than about Clinton's obvious lies.
Few of us have ever had to dodge gunfire as Clinton claimed to have done, but if we had, we would remember it.
So Clinton's explanation that she "misspoke" and that she was "sleep-deprived" when she retold the bogus incident (more than once) was insulting.
But here's what I find depressing.
Like former President Bill Clinton, who became unglued in South Carolina and began exploiting our racial divisions, Hillary Clinton is playing the same game.
The Clintons are no strangers to the black church when they are campaigning.
They know Obama went as far as he could go in addressing this issue, and that he has left it up to the voters to decide.
The Clinton strike Tuesday was a shameful attempt to manipulate those voters.
After all, given that Clinton is embracing the support of a governor who has publicly declared that white men in Pennsylvania won't vote for a black man, she isn't the one to talk.
Roxxxanne wrote:McGentrix wrote:Roxxxanne wrote:Obama never had cozy relationship with racists and I haven't heard anyone in the MSM even make that claim.
Except his preacher you mean, right?
Reverend Wright is not a racist and noone in the MSM has made that claim to my knoweldge.
Do you have to be prodded by someone in 'the media' before you can evaluate someone's words and actions?
Can you think for yourself?
real life, haha. Gotta laugh at that. The history of the church is well documented. The church hierarchy merely described the programs the church offers. Quite a list. " Trinity UCC's vast array of ministries include career development and college placement, tutorial and computer services, health care and support groups, domestic violence programs, pastoral care and counseling, bereavement services, drug and alcohol recovery, prison ministry, financial counseling and credit union, housing and economic development, dozens of choral, instrumental and dance groups, and diverse programming for all ages, including youth and senior citizens." Some outreach. As for Jeremiah Wright I got a kick out of this from the article, "There have been two major sins in the Black church that many Black churches will not address - homophobia is one and sexism is another," Samuel says, "and Jeremiah Wright has been one of the articulate, courageous voices that has not been afraid to address these critical issues. If he can do that and still maintain his close connectivity to the Black community, and stay grounded in the Black ethos, that's what has inspired me."
real life wrote:Roxxxanne wrote:McGentrix wrote:Roxxxanne wrote:Obama never had cozy relationship with racists and I haven't heard anyone in the MSM even make that claim.
Except his preacher you mean, right?
Reverend Wright is not a racist and noone in the MSM has made that claim to my knoweldge.
Do you have to be prodded by someone in 'the media' before you can evaluate someone's words and actions?
Can you think for yourself?
Oh so you are admitting you misspoke?
"No one, including the media, is
criticizing Obama for BEING black, TKO.
Get your head out of the straw.
The
criticism is for his long term association and cozy relationships with racists."
The fact is that only lunatics like yourself think Wright is a racist.
I might add that you claimed he associated with racists, plural!
RealLife is quite correct, however, that the denomination isn't about to diss any of its congregations that it depends on to keep supporting the regional or national organization. This is especially true of the UCC who is one of the smaller mainline denominations and cannot easily afford to disaffect any of its congregations. The UCC churches are autonomous and any support they provide to the denominational heirarchy is purely voluntary. A very large congregation like Trinity is an important financial resource for the national church.
Foxfyre wrote: The UCC churches are autonomous and any support they provide to the denominational heirarchy is purely voluntary. A very large congregation like Trinity is an important financial resource for the national church.
Well, not completely, at least not according to the
Constitution of the United Church of Christ ´.
But the ultimate authority on most matters is given to local churches.
Foxfyre, who would diss such a wonderful church. I dont go to church myself. Phony Christians like the warmonger, rapturite Hagee and such on whose anti-Christian backs Bushie built his war are a major turnoff. But Wright and Trinity seem to me to be what Christ was all about. Wright says the kind of things Christ would be saying imo. Anti-racism and anti-imperialism. Defending the downtrodden and persecuted. And reaching out to the community with works of mercy, food, clothing, housing, education, music, art, love. That would be a church I could join. Not the least because they aint afraid to speak truth to power.
Walter Hinteler wrote:Foxfyre wrote: The UCC churches are autonomous and any support they provide to the denominational heirarchy is purely voluntary. A very large congregation like Trinity is an important financial resource for the national church.
Well, not completely, at least not according to the
Constitution of the United Church of Christ ´.
But the ultimate authority on most matters is given to local churches.
As it is in all congregational denominations, the UCC constitution does not have any authority over the local congregation. The national church accepts a congregation as an official congregation of that denomination, provides services such as coordinated mission projects, screening of clergy, etc. but cannot dictate who any congregation many ordain or call to be a pastor and it can suggest, but it cannot dictate or enforce what financial support the local congregation provides the national organization.
The National Church can attempt to arbitrate conflicts and, if a congregation was deemed unacceptable as a UCC congregation it could disassociate that congregation from the UCC and/or its pastor would not have standing with the UCC.
But given how large, prosperous, and no doubt lucrative for the national church TUCC is, it is unlikely that the national church would ever consider it 'necessary' to disassociate from TUCC or criticize its emphasis or ministerial staff in any way.
Foxfyre wrote:RealLife is quite correct, however, that the denomination isn't about to diss any of its congregations that it depends on to keep supporting the regional or national organization. This is especially true of the UCC who is one of the smaller mainline denominations and cannot easily afford to disaffect any of its congregations. The UCC churches are autonomous and any support they provide to the denominational heirarchy is purely voluntary. A very large congregation like Trinity is an important financial resource for the national church.
And, besides, Obama does not think his church is particularly '
controversial'.
Because as anyone knows,
all churches include anti-semitic rhetoric in their church bulletins, including (among other things)
accusing Israel of once working with South Africa "on an ethnic bomb that kills Blacks and Arabs." Page 8, read it quick before it gets magically 'disappeared'.
(Countdown to how Obama - 20-year member - knew nothing! about any of this)
blueflame1 wrote:Foxfyre, who would diss such a wonderful church. I dont go to church myself. Phony Christians like the warmonger, rapturite Hagee and such on whose anti-Christian backs Bushie built his war are a major turnoff. But Wright and Trinity seem to me to be what Christ was all about. Wright says the kind of things Christ would be saying imo. Anti-racism and anti-imperialism. Defending the downtrodden and persecuted. And reaching out to the community with works of mercy, food, clothing, housing, education, music, art, love. That would be a church I could join. Not the least because they aint afraid to speak truth to power.
If Hagee's church was in the UCC denomination, you can bet they wouldn't be criticizing it either. And if it was undergoing national scrutiny, they would be praising it and defending it as passionately as they are the TUCC.
Foxfyre wrote:As it is in all congregational denominations, the UCC ...
Since the UCC was formed the a
union of the
Evangelical and Reformed Church and the
Congregational Christian Churches you still find some - "Christian, Reformed, Congregational and Evangelical" - other than pure congressional elemnts it as well (which is nicely shown in their Constitution).
McGentrix wrote:Roxxxanne wrote:Obama never had cozy relationship with racists and I haven't heard anyone in the MSM even make that claim.
Except his preacher you mean, right?
Quote:Would you kindly direct me to a quote from a respected journalist making the claim you allege. Have fun.
An interesting 2007 article from the NY Times.
Quote:"If Barack gets past the primary, he might have to publicly distance himself from me," Mr. Wright said with a shrug. "I said it to Barack personally, and he said yeah, that might have to happen."
Roxanne has a point, though. I've asked twice if it has really been demonstrated that Wright is a racist and haven't gotten an answer. Yet I see it asserted over and over again. As I said before, I haven't seen all of the clips, but I have not heard him say anything that was overtly racist. I thought the big stink was over the GD America bit. What exactly makes him a racist?
Walter Hinteler wrote:Foxfyre wrote:As it is in all congregational denominations, the UCC ...
Since the UCC was formed the a
union of the
Evangelical and Reformed Church and the
Congregational Christian Churches you still find some - "Christian, Reformed, Congregational and Evangelical" - other than pure congressional elemnts it as well (which is nicely shown in their Constitution).
I am not talking about how a denomination became a denomination, Walter. Many if not most U.S. Protestant denominations were formed from 'unions' with two or more earlier denominations. I am talking about the polity within that denomination. As the UCC is a sister denomination of my own denomination, and we share clergy, resources, at times combine regional or national meetings, etc., I know something about the polity within the UCC.
O was talking about the polity, too.
The UCC is in "ecumenical partnership" with most of our Evangelical churches (via the Union of Evangelical Churches in Germany) as well.
Foxfyre, ridiculous. Haggee could not be part of the UCC. When Wright says god damn he's talking about Hagee's rapturite war. You show how much you miss the point of what Wright says and what his church is all about. Hagee's church promotes war in order to bring down Christ. Wright's brings Christ out of the hearts of the congregation and into action within the community and world, including works of mercy and damning war for rapture's sake.
Walter Hinteler wrote:O was talking about the polity, too.
The UCC is in "ecumenical partnership" with most of our Evangelical churches (via the Union of Evangelical Churches in Germany) as well.
Voluntary and mandatory are two different things. I am saying that particpation of UCC congregations in the UCC denomination is voluntary; contributions to the UCC national church are voluntary; the UCC national church has NO POWER to dictate any policy, doctrine, practice, or attitude to the local congregation.
That does not mean that the congregations do not CHOOSE to share certain values, ministries, programs, policies, financing.
It is not like the Catholic or Methodist or Anglican Church with a heirarchy. Those who have never experienced the congregational system sometimes do have a difficult time grasping the concept.
blueflame1 wrote:Foxfyre, ridiculous. Haggee could not be part of the UCC. When Wright says god damn he's talking about Hagee's rapturite war. You show how much you miss the point of what Wright says and what his church is all about. Hagee's church promotes war in order to bring down Christ. Wright's brings Christ out of the hearts of the congregation and into action within the community and world, including works of mercy and damning war for rapture's sake.
You completely missed the point about what I was saying. Please go back and reread and try again. All this other stuff is unrelated.
