Diest TKO
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 05:45 pm
Then don't elect Wright as president.

Wait... he's not even running. Moving on.

T
K
O
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 05:48 pm
Neither were any of those other folks I mentioned.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:02 pm
Teenyb,

Of course, it is absurd to expect that anyone knows everything about everyone within a general class. When I say that not every Republican or conservative fits the stereotype endlessly peddled by the Left, here and elsewhere, I don't need to know and cite everything about every Republican, or conservative. My case is proven if even one republican and/or conservative doesn't fit the image drawn by the Left.

I know personally many Republicans who aren't wealthy by any standard. There is no "wealth" prerequisite for being a Republican, or supporting the GOP. Eisenhower wasn't wealth, he was in regular attendance at a mainstream church, but wasn't particularly religious. I'm both conservative and Republican, and I'm a devout Buddhist. To abhor radical change based upon its appeal to the emotions, doesn't make one a monster. The Federalism of the Founders was and remains the soundest foundations for individual liberty, and support for the government designed by the Constitution and those first Presidents, is the touchstone for the GOP and conservatives in general. This nation was founded on the rock of individual freedom, and that entails risk of failure that government tinkers with at our peril.

Who supports the GOP and gives it the strength that the Left finds so disturbing? Republican strength lies not in the extreme wealth of a few, but in its political philosophy that appeals to middle-America. Americans believe in fair play, in equal justice, in the freedom of religion, and in a government that secures the individual without stangeling him in regulations and taxes from Washington. American's prize individual initiative, and admire the rugged individualist strong enough to stand in the tempest's blast. Americans love their country, and are unwilling to be cowed or dictated to by others. Americans when roused from their preference for peace, will fight endlessly until the threat has been defeated. Those who support the GOP's political philosophy are mechanics and farmers, small business owners and entrepreneurs, they are members of charismatic Christian churches and atheists. Republicans belong to the local Chambers of Commerce, they are your barber and your kid's soccer coach. They live in Kansas and Oklahoma, Texans and Hawaiians are Republicans. Some Republicans own stocks and bonds, and others struggle along on a meager Social Security check earned from a long life of labor. Not all of those who live in New York, or Los Angeles are from the radical wing of the Democratic Party. Not all university professors prefer Marxism to Capitalism. Many of our sons and daughters in the military fighting against tyranny and the supporters of terrorism are Republicans.

Can I give you each of their names? Do we have access to their IRS records? Can we look into the hearts of each religious person and read there a person's "dark secrets"? No, to all of those silly questions.

You seem to believe that I object to Obama, presumably because of his race. Again, you are stereotyping. Hey, nominate Collin Powell and I'll vote for him in a heartbeat. Whoops, Powell is a Republican isn't he? My wife and I were early supporters of Civil Rights, long before Mr. Obama was even born. We've supported and voted for Blacks and other minorities often over the past 40 years, or so. Our family is "inter-racial" from many ethnic backgrounds. So far as I know, no one in our family has ever attended any organization that preached hatred and racial prejudice... not even once, much less for twenty years.

Me, I'm a 67 year old civil service retiree, a Buddhist who served in the U.S. military back during the Eisenhower administration. I voted a straight Democratic ticket until that meant supporting LBJ's Vietnam War. I was one of those idealists who for a time believed that only Love and pacifism could transform the world into a better place. Like many young people, I was mistaken and it took quite some time to see the foolishness and dangers of working to build Utopia. Only after the political disaster of the Carter administration, did I change my registration to the GOP to the consternation of several family members. I have more than my share of university degrees and education. I worked for many years within a large municipal police department and thereafter in local California politics. I've never run for public office and have never been tempted to do so.

I'm about as far from the KKK as can be imagined. Your own racial prejudice, however, is showing when you so quickly assert that the only reason anyone would question a candidate's patriotism, religion, or associations must be prompted by racial prejudice. I suppose if we questioned Hillary Clinton's suitability for the Presidency, that would be a sign of gender chauvinism, right? So is Obama anti-feminist? How is it acceptable for the Left to question John McCain's patriotism, age, and religious endorsements, but not the other way around? If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen, a Democratic machine politician said that, and Truman may well have been the best President the nation has had in the past 50 years.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:12 pm
Asherman said
Quote:
Truman may well have been the best President the nation has had in the past 50 years.


I agree. And while he was among those presidents with the lowest approval ratings, history has been relatively kind to him. (Can't you just imagine how he would have been ripped up on the message boards if there had been an internet in his day?)
0 Replies
 
teenyboone
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:35 pm
Asherman wrote:
Teenyb,

Of course, it is absurd to expect that anyone knows everything about everyone within a general class. When I say that not every Republican or conservative fits the stereotype endlessly peddled by the Left, here and elsewhere, I don't need to know and cite everything about every Republican, or conservative. My case is proven if even one republican and/or conservative doesn't fit the image drawn by the Left.

I know personally many Republicans who aren't wealthy by any standard. There is no "wealth" prerequisite for being a Republican, or supporting the GOP. Eisenhower wasn't wealth, he was in regular attendance at a mainstream church, but wasn't particularly religious. I'm both conservative and Republican, and I'm a devout Buddhist. To abhor radical change based upon its appeal to the emotions, doesn't make one a monster. The Federalism of the Founders was and remains the soundest foundations for individual liberty, and support for the government designed by the Constitution and those first Presidents, is the touchstone for the GOP and conservatives in general. This nation was founded on the rock of individual freedom, and that entails risk of failure that government tinkers with at our peril.

Who supports the GOP and gives it the strength that the Left finds so disturbing? Republican strength lies not in the extreme wealth of a few, but in its political philosophy that appeals to middle-America. Americans believe in fair play, in equal justice, in the freedom of religion, and in a government that secures the individual without stangeling him in regulations and taxes from Washington. American's prize individual initiative, and admire the rugged individualist strong enough to stand in the tempest's blast. Americans love their country, and are unwilling to be cowed or dictated to by others. Americans when roused from their preference for peace, will fight endlessly until the threat has been defeated. Those who support the GOP's political philosophy are mechanics and farmers, small business owners and entrepreneurs, they are members of charismatic Christian churches and atheists. Republicans belong to the local Chambers of Commerce, they are your barber and your kid's soccer coach. They live in Kansas and Oklahoma, Texans and Hawaiians are Republicans. Some Republicans own stocks and bonds, and others struggle along on a meager Social Security check earned from a long life of labor. Not all of those who live in New York, or Los Angeles are from the radical wing of the Democratic Party. Not all university professors prefer Marxism to Capitalism. Many of our sons and daughters in the military fighting against tyranny and the supporters of terrorism are Republicans.

Can I give you each of their names? Do we have access to their IRS records? Can we look into the hearts of each religious person and read there a person's "dark secrets"? No, to all of those silly questions.

You seem to believe that I object to Obama, presumably because of his race. Again, you are stereotyping. Hey, nominate Collin Powell and I'll vote for him in a heartbeat. Whoops, Powell is a Republican isn't he? My wife and I were early supporters of Civil Rights, long before Mr. Obama was even born. We've supported and voted for Blacks and other minorities often over the past 40 years, or so. Our family is "inter-racial" from many ethnic backgrounds. So far as I know, no one in our family has ever attended any organization that preached hatred and racial prejudice... not even once, much less for twenty years.

Me, I'm a 67 year old civil service retiree, a Buddhist who served in the U.S. military back during the Eisenhower administration. I voted a straight Democratic ticket until that meant supporting LBJ's Vietnam War. I was one of those idealists who for a time believed that only Love and pacifism could transform the world into a better place. Like many young people, I was mistaken and it took quite some time to see the foolishness and dangers of working to build Utopia. Only after the political disaster of the Carter administration, did I change my registration to the GOP to the consternation of several family members. I have more than my share of university degrees and education. I worked for many years within a large municipal police department and thereafter in local California politics. I've never run for public office and have never been tempted to do so.

I'm about as far from the KKK as can be imagined. Your own racial prejudice, however, is showing when you so quickly assert that the only reason anyone would question a candidate's patriotism, religion, or associations must be prompted by racial prejudice. I suppose if we questioned Hillary Clinton's suitability for the Presidency, that would be a sign of gender chauvinism, right? So is Obama anti-feminist? How is it acceptable for the Left to question John McCain's patriotism, age, and religious endorsements, but not the other way around? If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen, a Democratic machine politician said that, and Truman may well have been the best President the nation has had in the past 50 years.


I asked you a series of questions and not one, have you answered. I never mentioned his race, you did. 67?, I'm right on your heels anytime I have a Viet-Nam Vet for a husband. See, I'm Roman Catholic, by birth, female, but I'm Black, too! You've thrown everything but the kitchen sink, just like Hillary, so one more time:

You said:
Not all Republicans are right-wing religious fanatics, or wealthy "neo-con", who are wealthy oil plutocrats.

Is that a "personal" opinion? Can you verify that they are not and NAME your source? Do you know where they worship or if they worship, at all?
Do you see their 1040's every year and where they obtain thier wealth?
How many of them have served in the armed forces and if not, why not?
Who contributes to their campaigns? Are they "grass roots" donations or from the powerful lobbyists? Why are televangelists supporting Republicans and not Democrats? What's your party affiliation? Are you registered to vote? Do you work for a living or own your own business? Are you oil connected? Are you a "redneck" or a corporate person?
Are you homeowner or a slumlord? Do you practice what you preach?
Do you think Blacks have had enough civil rights? Do you consider them Americans?

All of the above is addressed JUST to you, since you question the patriotism, religion, associations, of the first serious Black Candidate, for the office of the United States President.

Better still, since you hate the very thought of Mr. Obama, running for the office, tell me what's so GOOD about McCain! My husband has served this country longer than Mc Cain, 4 years, US Navy, 1 tour of Viet-Nam and 22 in the Army National Guard. We have both voted for whites in every election since 1964 and have the opportunity, we hope, to vote for someone who looks like us, for a change, is qualified, a husband, father, son and brother to his sister, who isn't black! Different fathers! So just what do you want? You've already "crucified him"!

Better still, are you a member of the KKK? You can dish it, but you sure can't take it but brand a Black man whatever suits YOU! Get over yourself! Cool
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:42 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
revel wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
I was quite specific that Obama's relationship with Jeremiah Wright is a different issue from his voting record. His relationship with Jeremiah Wright could reflect on his personal attitudes about America. It is a given that Obama can be expected to promote a far left socialist agenda should he be elected President because he has a track record for that.


His agenda is not "far left" it is merely left and I for one don't have a problem with that. I doubt many people do either after getting a taste of a true conservative platform in action these last eight years. If only we can get back to talking about that sort of thing.


Why don't you start us off then Revel? Obama is rated as the most liberal member of Congress by at least one group that analyzes these things, and running down his voting record since he became a Senator, I think they're probably right. That puts him left of even Bernie Sanders who is a registered Socialist.

So can you give us some insight into how Obama will make a good President? No fair saying that he isn't so and so or he won't be like so and so. I want to know what he will try to do that will make America stronger and more prosperous.


Oh well if one group in congress has rated him as far left then it must be so. (sarcasm)

Go to his website and you can find out for yourself; he lays it all out in black and white for all to see in plain english.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

Reading up on his website is what made me decide to vote for him instead of Hillary in that he think he addresses the issues I care about and I think he has good ideas on almost (if not all) the issues facing us today. He might not be able to carry them out for one reason or another but I think he has a good idea of the problems and possible solutions for them that more align issues i care about.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:45 pm
Well darn, Revel. You have been so critical of any of us who presume to criticize Obama, I thought you might have at least one non subjective thought in your head about what you really like about the guy. But oh well.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:51 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Well darn, Revel. You have been so critical of any of us who presume to criticize Obama, I thought you might have at least one non subjective thought in your head about what you really like about the guy. But oh well.


Did you not follow the link and read up on the issues laid out? I don't think you did because surely you didn't have time.

In any case for example:

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/education/

It is simply too much to lay out but I agree with him on the problems and I like his solutions on education and on all the other issues.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/

The above is another one I agree with.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:53 pm
Seriously? This is page 1373 of this thread in which over and over again many of us have said what we like about him and why we think he'd be a good president and a good leader. I see no reason to repeat ourselves now just because you've just come around to wondering what it is we see in him.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:54 pm
"My case is proven if even one republican and/or conservative doesn't fit the image drawn by the Left."

I did that, and my point was proven.

Questioning Obama's suitability to be President of the United States has NOTHING what-so-ever to do with his "race". Race is a bogus term used by bigots. Prejudice based upon ethnicity, gender, age, or "race" should be condemned where ever and when ever prejudice raises its ugly head. By playing the race card, you are far more guilty than I of "racial prejudice".

I have absolutely no problem with Obama running for President because of his "race", though I question whether one so young and inexperienced has the maturity to hold the most powerful office in the world. If Obama IS racially prejudiced and agrees with the repugnant views of Rev. Wright, then I don't believe Americans will elect him. For that matter, I really doubt that anyone could be elected President of the United States today if they believed racial divisiveness, hatred and that the United States is the source of all the world's problems. "Crucify him"? You have to be joking, Obama is a politician no different fundamentally than any other.

Imagine for just a wee moment what your personal reaction would be if a person said, "we will vote for XYZ because he looks like us, and it's "no big deal" that he has spent 20 years at the feet of a mentor, friend, advisor and pastor who preaches racial divisiveness, hatred for the United States and who believes that the U.S. government has been pursuing a policy of genocide"?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:55 pm
McCain says we're succeeding in Iraq. What does "Success" in Iraq look like?


McCain says US succeeding in Iraq
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 06:58 pm
teenyboone wrote:
Better still, are you a member of the KKK? ...


Wow. Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 07:07 pm
teenyboone wrote:
Asherman wrote:
Some very poignant things answering every question posed


Repeated some silly crap.


Teenyboone, re-read what Asherman wrote. Your questions have been answered.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 07:09 pm
asherman


"Questioning Obama's suitability to be President of the United States has NOTHING what-so-ever to do with his "race". Race is a bogus term used by bigots. Prejudice based upon ethnicity, gender, age, or "race" should be condemned where ever and when ever prejudice raises its ugly head. By playing the race card, you are far more guilty than I of "racial prejudice".

I have absolutely no problem with Obama running for President because of his "race", though I question whether one so young and inexperienced has the maturity to hold the most powerful office in the world. If Obama IS racially prejudiced and agrees with the repugnant views of Rev. Wright, then I don't believe Americans will elect him. For that matter, I really doubt that anyone could be elected President of the United States today if they believed racial divisiveness, hatred and that the United States is the source of all the world's problems. "Crucify him"? You have to be joking, Obama is a politician no different fundamentally than any other."
I read some English but your English mirror my views succinctly
Regards
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 07:57 pm
Actually, I did miss answering a few of her questions.

"What's your party affiliation? Are you registered to vote?" I'm a Republican and don't believe that I've missed voting in any election since, 1961. Actually, I did sorta answer this question before, but what the heck.

"Do you work for a living or own your own business?" Again, I did answer this one also. I'm retired from civil service, 22+ years. I worked on the family ranch, picked cotton, worked in a chili packing factory, sold encyclopedias door-to-door, worked as a bank teller and computer technician. I was a dispatcher for a drayage company on the San Francisco docks, and sold neckties from a box on a street corner. I worked in a dry cleaners and as a tailor's apprentice before going to work with aerospace corporations. I cleaned sumps while earning accreditation as a metallurgist. I was a night shift supervisor for a supplier of aerospace parts, and part of a team that worked on metallurgical problems related to space flight. While working full time and raising a family, I earned two B.A. degrees, did graduate work in Oriental Religion and Philosophy, and studied Law. I earned a Master's degree and became a technical adviser to a grants program designed to reduce juvenile delinquency and gangs in the Compton area of Los Angeles.

I've stood on unemployment lines between aerospace jobs, but never collected welfare. I've never owned my own business, but my family has so I'm familiar with the problems of small business owners.

"Are you oil connected? Are you a "redneck" or a corporate person?" I own stocks, but nothing oil related that I know of. I don't think anyone would confuse me with a "redneck", though I deplore the term as demeaning and disrespectful of men who work out of doors with their hands. I've certainly worked at times for corporations, but again, I'm not exactly a "corporate person". My youngest son is a commercial investment banker, does that count? Whoops, he's a left-wing supporter of Obama, and thinks his Daddy has been beguiled by the Right.

"Are you homeowner or a slumlord?" Yes, I have a hefty mortgage on a wonderful estate we call Corazon de la Osa. This is the third house that my wife and I have bought over our 42 years of married life. Slum lord? Not hardly. Now that youngest son has an interest in some rental properties in San Francisco, but they sure aren't slums. Damned Democratic Rich People.

"Do you practice what you preach?" Well thats rather subjective, isn't it. But, yes I try very hard to practice what I preach. I prize honor, duty and country, and I'm proud of my character and reputation. I've often made hard, difficult choices and taken risks to maintain and advance the values I espouse. I've defended people whose positions and beliefs I despise when they were unjustly attacked and condemned. I've cut away dear friends whose behavior and prejudices are in contradiction to the values I hold dear. When I give my word, it is as good as any contract.

"Do you think Blacks have had enough civil rights? Do you consider them Americans?" Either we have civil rights, or we don't. Blacks and minorities were denied their civil rights for over a hundred years by Jim Crow laws and social segregation. Those were shameful laws, and no one is happier that they are gone than I am. For the Democratic Party to have supported segregation in the South from Reconstruction to the middle of the 20th century is something far too easily forgotten. There remains prejudice and chauvinism in the hearts of many people, regardless of their color and no law can ever totally eradicate that blemish. Each of us has to take on that task for ourselves, and work to overcome the residual effects of past prejudice. Some will do better at that than others. Why ever would anyone not regard those born and raised in the United States as Americans? Some choose to deny their status and responsibilities as Americans, but that doesn't change their being American.. whether their ancestors came from Great Britain, Europe, Russia, Turkey, Iraq, India, China, Japan, or somewhere on the continent of Africa or South America. Even those who hate America seldom renounce their citizenship, and return to the homeland of their ancestors because life in America is The Prize that most folks appreciate winning by just being born here.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 08:46 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Ashman wrote: "In my opinion, if the Democratic Party truly believes in the evil of white America, and that Obama is the best candidate to truly change things, then they should make him their nominee. But, don't expect that conservatives...

This guy thinks he has knowledge about democrats, when in fact he doesn't even know what America is about.



He doesn't know what anything is about. He is so out of touch that any opinion he offers is likely the exact opposite of reality. I wish he would give me the time back that I wasted reading his verbose drool. I shan't make the same mistake again.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 08:48 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Seriously? This is page 1373 of this thread in which over and over again many of us have said what we like about him and why we think he'd be a good president and a good leader. I see no reason to repeat ourselves now just because you've just come around to wondering what it is we see in him.


Yes, actually I agree. And I think with very few exceptions, those not supporting Obama have given clear and concise reasons for why they do not. I haven't seen a single reason for not voting for Obama that is related to his race. Yet several on the thread seem to keep throwing 'racist' and 'bigot' etc. at any non-Obama supporter and asking us over and over and over again what our problems with him are. You personally haven't thrown more than very mild ad hominems at anyone, but you have probably asked me the same questions two or three times now.

So the conversation shifted to Jeremiah Wright, but the Obama supporters didn't want to talk about that. And they seemed to appreciate when another issue was brought up.

So I was just trying to accommodate. And now you guys are complaining that you've already discussed all the things you like about Obama so you don't want to have to answer any questions about them?

So okay.

It all gets pretty silly after awhile.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 08:49 pm
Quote:
I haven't seen a single reason for not voting for Obama that is related to his race.


LOL I suppose you wouldn't.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 08:55 pm
Obama Girl is Back!!!
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Mon 24 Mar, 2008 08:59 pm
Roxxxanne wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
Ashman wrote: "In my opinion, if the Democratic Party truly believes in the evil of white America, and that Obama is the best candidate to truly change things, then they should make him their nominee. But, don't expect that conservatives...

This guy thinks he has knowledge about democrats, when in fact he doesn't even know what America is about.



He doesn't know what anything is about. He is so out of touch that any opinion he offers is likely the exact opposite of reality. I wish he would give me the time back that I wasted reading his verbose drool. I shan't make the same mistake again.


I'm sure Ash is wilted at the thought that you won't be reading his posts.
0 Replies
 
 

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