Foxfyre
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 12:22 pm
From Obama's speech

Quote:
I can no more disown him than I can my white grandmother -- a woman who helped raise me, a woman who sacrificed again and again for me, a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed by her on the street, and who on more than one occasion has uttered racial or ethnic stereotypes that made me cringe.


I believe his only reference to his grandma and race in his book:

One day, the 16-18 year old Obama wakes up to an argument between his grandmother and grandfather. She didn't want to ride the bus because she had been hassled by a bum at the bus stop. She tells him:

Quote:
"Her lips pursed with irritation. 'He was very aggressive, Barry. Very aggressive. I gave him a dollar and he kept asking. If the bus hadn't come, I think he might have hit me over the head."

"He turned around and I saw that he was shaking. 'It is a big deal. It's a big deal to me. She's been bothered by men before. You know why she's so scared this time. I'll tell you why. Before you came in, she told me the fella was black.' He whispered the word. 'That's the real reason why she's bothered. And I just don't think that right.'

"The words were like a fist in my stomach, and I wobbled to regain my composure. In my steadiest voice, I told him that such an attitude bothered me, too, but reassured him that Toot's fears would pass and that we should give her a ride in the meantime. Gramps slumped into a chair in the living room and said he was sorry he had told me. Before my eyes, he grew small and old and very sad. I put my hand on his shoulder and told him that it was all right, I understood.

"We remained like that for several minutes, in painful silence. Finally he insisted that he drive Toot after all, and I thought about my grandparents. They had sacrificed again and again for me. They had poured all their lingering hopes into my success. Never had they given me reason to doubt their love; I doubted if they ever would. And yet I knew that men who might easily have been my brothers would still inspire their rawest fear."


So Obama goes to a friend for counseling who told him

Quote:
"What I'm trying to tell you is, your grandma's right to be scared. She's at least as right as Stanley is. She understands that black people have a reason to hate. That's just how it is. For your sake, I wish it were otherwise. But it's not. So you might as well get used to it."

"Frank closed his eyes. His breathing slowed until he seemed to be asleep. I thought about waking him, then decided against it and walked back to the car. The earth shook under my feet, ready to crack open at any moment. I stopped, trying to steady myself, and knew for the first time that I was utterly alone."


Geraldine Ferraro didn't appreciate being lumped in with Jeremiah Wright as somehow comparable. I imagine Barack's grandma wouldn't either.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 12:54 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
The speech was typical Obama--competent, well designed, well delivered. The purpose of the speech was to calm the controversy swirling around his Pastor, however, and Obama failed to be explicit about where he disagreed with his controversial pastor.


There's an article on The Politico today that features interviews with blue collar Democrats in an Irish bar in NE Philly. The speech seems to have been a complete bomb in that venue, too.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 12:57 pm
Quote:
On the other end, we've heard my former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, use incendiary language to express views that have the potential not only to widen the racial divide, but views that denigrate both the greatness and the goodness of our nation -- that rightly offend white and black alike.

I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Rev. Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain.

Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely -- just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.

But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice.

Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country -- a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America, a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam.

As such, Rev. Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together to solve a set of monumental problems -- two wars, a terrorist threat, a falling economy, a chronic health care crisis and potentially devastating climate change; problems that are neither black or white or Latino or Asian, but rather problems that confront us all.

Given my background, my politics, and my professed values and ideals, there will no doubt be those for whom my statements of condemnation are not enough. Why associate myself with Rev. Wright in the first place, they may ask? Why not join another church?


Not once in my conversations with him have I heard him talk about any ethnic group in derogatory terms, or treat whites with whom he interacted with anything but courtesy and respect. He contains within him the contradictions -- the good and the bad -- of the community that he has served diligently for so many years.

Some will see this as an attempt to justify or excuse comments that are simply inexcusable. I can assure you it is not. I suppose the politically safe thing would be to move on from this episode and just hope that it fades into the woodwork.

But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Rev. Wright made in his offending sermons about America -- to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.

That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change.

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle-class squeeze -- a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favor the few over the many.

And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognizing they are grounded in legitimate concerns -- this too widens the racial divide, and blocks the path to understanding.

The profound mistake of Rev. Wright's sermons is not that he spoke about racism in our society. It's that he spoke as if our society was static; as if no progress has been made; as if this country -- a country that has made it possible for one of his own members to run for the highest office in the land and build a coalition of white and black, Latino and Asian, rich and poor, young and old -- is still irrevocably bound to a tragic past.


These were some relevant snippets from his speech....
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:00 pm
I had forgotten the line about radical Islam being the root of unrest in the Middle East instead of Israel. I have to give him that one. That WAS specific and it was good.l
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:02 pm
Oh how do you know what Obama's grandmother minds foxfyre? As for Ferraro; he didn't liken Ferraro with Wright; what he said was they both come from the politics of yesteryear and he is right.

Quote:
On Wright, Obama said he's a product of the 60s generation, and likened the generational divide to another controversial figure, Geraldine Ferraro. 'His experience of race in this country is very different than mine in the same way that Geraldine's experience being an intelligent, ambitious woman, you know, is very different than a young woman who's coming up today and potentially has a different set of opportunities.'

"Obama said his generation benefits from the past. 'And that's part of what this campaign has been about, is to say, let's acknowledge a difficult history, but let's move forward in a practical way to get things done.'
"

http://weblogs.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/blog/2008/03/obama_on_pbs_ferraro_wright.html
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:02 pm
I think he was pretty clearly in disagreement with Wright.

Failure to acknowledge or recognize his opposition to Wright is to ignore the very words he spoke in favor of the contrarian propaganda being peddled through various news outlets.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:06 pm
It's just opponents of his twisting things he says to attack him. They look for a crack and exploit it rather then pay attention to the bigger message, b/c they are not interested in the message; they are interested in harming him.

I remember long ago, that Obama said: 'my opponent in this race isn't Hillary Clinton, or the Republicans. It's cynicism.' And he was spot on.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:06 pm
candidone1 wrote:
I think he was pretty clearly in disagreement with Wright.

Failure to acknowledge or recognize his opposition to Wright is to ignore the very words he spoke in favor of the contrarian propaganda being peddled through various news outlets.


I think you are correct in the spirit of the speech overall. I don't however think he was specific enough on enough of the issues to reassure those who, for instance, see a problem with that photo of him being the only person on the podium not saluting the flag during the National Anthem or on those subtle little stories about him refusing to wear a flag lapel pin, etc. These things all seem to build in on each other. Another example: that he would excuse Pastor Wright because his rhetoric did not represent the full sum of the man, but would not afford a white radio talk show host the same consideration, will be made a problem for him.

I'm not speaking of realities in fact here. I am speaking of the realities of perception. He has a public relations problem among the undecided and I don't think his speech was enough to deal with it.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:10 pm
Quite frankly, those people you describe won't be voting for any Democrat. I think he's explained enough. To try to convince the inconvincible would be a waste of time and energy (witness this thread) and an unneeded distraction. He's right to move on.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:19 pm
He wasn't out to convince his non-supporters. He was out to convince those fence sitters. I don't think he did enough. The rest of you are certainly okay to disagree with that.

We will know from the polls, yes? So far, since the speech, his negatives have been rising among those fence sitters suggesting that he was not convincing to them.

And we'll all know for sure come election day.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:21 pm
I guess I am naive then Foxy....I would hope that there would be some widespread recognition accross the spectrum that black anger exists and that there is something to it that speaks to larger issues facing America vis a vis race relations and other social injustices. The is so much anger and animosity accross the color/ethnic spectrum that to continue pretend it doesn't exist will just further harm and divide America.

Many Americans wanted to go toe to toe with Saddam because of the injustices Iraqis have endured at the hands of Saddam (at least that was the claim). They united in the call to reign in global terror.

I would hope that through this Wright debacle, Americans are willing to go toe to toe with social injustices, be it race, gender or otherwise. I would hope that they would see this event or these circumstances as a pivotal moment in initiating positive and meaningful change in their country. I would hope that people of every stripe see this as a legitimate problem facing America in the 21st century....and it's the same problem that Americans faced in the 20th century. It won't, as Obama said, be fixed in one term, or with one presidency....but serious consideration needs to be given to this issue.

....the audacity of hope eh?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:22 pm
-All of us has a public relations problem. Doesn't seem to effect "none" of our families or friends.

So, what's so different about politics - except how each of us perceive it to be.

I for one see the past seven years as a nightmare, but that's me. I"m surprised conservatives who are losing their homes, cars, paying more for food and energy, and not keeping up with inflation to be a symptom of the problems for Americans. But, hay, this is America.

I believe in conservatism in our government, but Bush has handled everything in the reverse; increase spending while taxing less.

Jobless numbers are starting to pick up, and more will be losing their homes and cars during the coming months - and probably years.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:23 pm
You're stunningly wrong - he wasn't out to convince anyone. He was out to get the media to back the f*ck off. And it worked beautifully. You will note that the pundits universally praised the speech. That was the point.

If he hadn't responded forcefully, they would have universally doomed him for ignoring it.

It isn't as if Obama thought that the blue-collar guy in PA who watched the speech would say, 'jeez, he's right, black people have it tough, maybe I should cut them some slack.' C'mon, he's not naive. He even said so in the speech - that healing our racial problems will take a lot more then just speeches or a presidency, it will take years of hard work.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:27 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Quite frankly, those people you describe won't be voting for any Democrat. I think he's explained enough. To try to convince the inconvincible would be a waste of time and energy (witness this thread) and an unneeded distraction. He's right to move on.


I disagree. This is a republican tactic, and one that I'm sure you disagree with FD.
Republicans refused to address the black vote simply because it was a waste of time. If Obama takes this issue seriously and takes the thought of being the kind of president he wants to be seriously, he needs to try to convince the people "who won't be voting democrat". Otherwise, he is just the same as the republicans who wrote off the black vote because it was a waste of time.

I'm not personally saying it is time well spent....but Obama has st a very high bar for himself, his campaign and the issue of unity. I'd hate to see him begin the limbo just because it was inconvenient to work the other team a bit more.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:42 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I agree with Bernie. Obama doesn't need to talk about this, and certainly not on Fox.

It's nothing but a trap designed to make him look bad. No matter how well he answers the questions, they will not only make him look bad, but keep the story going. Not what he wants or needs right now.

Cycloptichorn



Unfortunately, Fox News was given the TV pool rights this year for the Democratic convention. MSNBC will be doing the Republican convention. They will be the networks with the cameras in the convention producing video for all other networks to broadcast.

On one hand, I'm angry that Fox News has been given this, but on the other hand, I think it is a good thing. They certainly won't hesitate to expose any backroom hanky panky by super delegates. Unfortunately, they're just as likely to spread false rumors and implications to stir the pot in an effort to generate discord if there isn't any to be found.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:45 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Of course, you were doing yeoman's work, Nimh.

This is a test period for Obama. If this is the worst things get for him, then hell - he's fine and will win the nomination and in the Fall. If he can't turn the numbers around, then he doesn't deserve to win the nomination OR the presidency. It was always apparent that these sorts of attacks would be used against him; we all knew the Republicans would do it sooner or later, well, it's sooner.

He's going to be spending the upcoming weeks trying to talk about other stuff. And I think that he will be at least partially successful in turning the conversation away from it. The story doesn't have enough legs to be the over-arcing meme for the rest of the primary, let alone the General election.

Cycloptichorn


One of the good things to come of all this is that people are finally listening, not just hearing Obama. He's getting a lot of press coverage and scrutiny. I hope he uses it to good advantage to start rolling out more of the details of his plans that everyone is craving.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:46 pm
candidone1 wrote:
I would hope that there would be some widespread recognition accross the spectrum that black anger exists ...


Hopefully everyone realizes that for every angry black person, there are close to 5-10 angry whites, who over the past 20 years have managed to keep their mouths shut and their tempers under control.

Those days are coming to an end and that can only mean more discrimination, more race riots, and
far less tolerance.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:52 pm
Miller wrote:
candidone1 wrote:
I would hope that there would be some widespread recognition accross the spectrum that black anger exists ...


Hopefully everyone realizes that for every angry black person, there are close to 5-10 angry whites, who over the past 20 years have managed to keep their mouths shut and their tempers under control.

Those days are coming to an end and that can only mean more discrimination, more race riots, and
far less tolerance.


Well, us whites have had it tough for the last few hundred years.
I understand.

I fail to see why, when someone is so willing to try to relieve racial tensions--black, white, brown and asian--anyone would object.

Oh yeah....you just hate colored people....blacks specifially.
I forgot. Say no more.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:52 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I agree with Bernie. Obama doesn't need to talk about this, and certainly not on Fox.

It's nothing but a trap designed to make him look bad. No matter how well he answers the questions, they will not only make him look bad, but keep the story going. Not what he wants or needs right now.

Cycloptichorn



Unfortunately, Fox News was given the TV pool rights this year for the Democratic convention. MSNBC will be doing the Republican convention. They will be the networks with the cameras in the convention producing video for all other networks to broadcast.

On one hand, I'm angry that Fox News has been given this, but on the other hand, I think it is a good thing. They certainly won't hesitate to expose any backroom hanky panky by super delegates. Unfortunately, they're just as likely to spread false rumors and implications to stir the pot in an effort to generate discord if there isn't any to be found.


You've got to be joking. That is precisely what they'll do. It is a 100% certainty. It is why they exist.

Has anyone actually watched "outfoxed"?! http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6737097743434902428

Has anyone actually read Lapham?!
http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/2004/Republican-Propaganda1sep04.htm

Quote:
is in part the amateur work of Lee Habeeb.

A former producer of "The Laura Ingraham Show," Habeeb is the director of strategic content at Salem Radio Network, the conservative talk radio powerhouse that airs programs hosted by figures such as Bill Bennett and Hugh Hewitt
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0308/AntiObama_video_crafted_by_talk_radio_producer.html
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 01:53 pm
http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0308/McCain_aide_circulates_ObamaWright_video_is_suspended.html

Quote:
March 20, 2008
Categories: McCain

McCain aide circulates Obama/Wright video, is suspended


An aide to John McCain was suspended from the campaign today for blasting out an inflammatory video that raises questions about Barack Obama's patriotism.

Soren Dayton, who works in McCain's political department, sent out the YouTube link of "Is Obama Wright?" on twitter at 12:31 today with the tag, "Good video on Obama and Wright." It has since been taken down.

Twitter is an online device that allows users to send out short messages and links en masse through computers or PDAs.

McCain and his campaign have repeatedly said that they would stay away from personal attacks on Obama, but the temptation has increased as Wright's words have dominated the race in recent days.

Last week, they included an op-ed that hammered Wright and Obama in their morning clip package emailed to reporters. The same day, a campaign aide they regretted doing so.

Informed that Dayton was circulating the video, McCain spokeswoman Jill Hazelbaker said he had been suspended and "reprimanded by campaign leadership."

"We have been very clear on the type of campaign we intend to run and this staffer acted in violation of our policy," she said.

She declined to say for how long he was suspended.

Previously an independent blogger, Dayton drew the attention and favor of McCain's campaign with his frequent attacks on Mitt Romney. He was brought onto the campaign earlier this year to help in the political department. An aide said he was doing "low-level political work for [deputy political director] John Yob."

The video Dayton sent, which includes images of Malcolm X, the black Olympians raising their hands in the black power salute and the rap song "Fight the Power," has been rapidly spreading in political circles this week.

As I reported yesterday, it was crafted by a conservative talk radio producer.
0 Replies
 
 

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