nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:06 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
One of the good things to come of all this is that people are finally listening, not just hearing Obama. He's getting a lot of press coverage and scrutiny. I hope he uses it to good advantage to start rolling out more of the details of his plans that everyone is craving.


Obama: Grandmother "typical white person"

It's almost like he wants this thing to fester. Does anyone here realistically think Hillary Clinton or any other candidate could get away with this kind of thing? Maybe it will play well in Peoria, but where else??
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:07 pm
Quote:
One of the good things to come of all this is that people are finally listening, not just hearing Obama


Just like they did to HITLER....
0 Replies
 
Jonsey
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:08 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
He wasn't out to convince his non-supporters. He was out to convince those fence sitters. I don't think he did enough.


Well.. it isn't exactly over. He still has time. Rome wasn't built in a day.

I just think the speech was to put everything out in the open. Everyone has been dancing around the issue of race, and Obama brought it all out into open. Whites are angry, blacks are angry, hispanics are angry, and for the first time in a long time, a guy who has a good chance at being President has acknowledged race relations as a problem. That was the point. This is no time for subtlety.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:08 pm
candidone1 wrote:
I guess I am naive then Foxy....I would hope that there would be some widespread recognition accross the spectrum that black anger exists and that there is something to it that speaks to larger issues facing America vis a vis race relations and other social injustices. The is so much anger and animosity accross the color/ethnic spectrum that to continue pretend it doesn't exist will just further harm and divide America.

Many Americans wanted to go toe to toe with Saddam because of the injustices Iraqis have endured at the hands of Saddam (at least that was the claim). They united in the call to reign in global terror.

I would hope that through this Wright debacle, Americans are willing to go toe to toe with social injustices, be it race, gender or otherwise. I would hope that they would see this event or these circumstances as a pivotal moment in initiating positive and meaningful change in their country. I would hope that people of every stripe see this as a legitimate problem facing America in the 21st century....and it's the same problem that Americans faced in the 20th century. It won't, as Obama said, be fixed in one term, or with one presidency....but serious consideration needs to be given to this issue.

....the audacity of hope eh?


It isn't a matter of 'black anger' among the fence sitters, most of whom share mainstream America with people of all races and ethnic groups who are simply living their lives and aren't particularly angry about anything. I am neither defending nor criticizing Obama or his speech here. I am reporting the perceptions of it as I read and hear the comments of those who are familiar with it.

Most of America do not want a 'black President', angry or otherwise. They want a President who will represent them and the things that they consider important. It is fine if that President happens to be black. For most, the issue of race has already been settled by law, in the courts, through Affirmative Action, etc. It is no longer an issue for them.

So the more an image is created of Obama as a black man, justifiably angry, a man who should be forgiven for understanding black anger and the kind of vitrolic rhetoric believed by his Pastor, the more the image will appear to be of a black man who will represent the angry black man and not the interests of mainstream America, the more problem he has. That overtly or sublimally is likely to increase Obama's negatives, even among conservative blacks.

The image of a black man who has transcended race as Bill Clinton was perceived to have transcended race, and who is simply an American emulating and supporting American values is in no way a negative image to the vast majority.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:09 pm
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
Butrflynet wrote:
One of the good things to come of all this is that people are finally listening, not just hearing Obama. He's getting a lot of press coverage and scrutiny. I hope he uses it to good advantage to start rolling out more of the details of his plans that everyone is craving.


Obama: Grandmother "typical white person"

It's almost like he wants this thing to fester. Does anyone here realistically think Hillary Clinton or any other candidate could get away with this kind of thing? Maybe it will play well in Peoria, but where else??


If his grandmother was a typical white grandma, why did her daughter marry that ugly man from Africa?
0 Replies
 
Jonsey
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:11 pm
Quote:
Seriously, Barack Obama basically called all white people racist. You know, because when us typical white folk walk down the street and see an African American coming our way we run to the other side of the road.


The expressions "white" and "black" are NOT interchangeable. The words carry different weight; the races have endured different things. You can't switch the words to make an argument.
0 Replies
 
Jonsey
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:13 pm
Quote:
For most, the issue of race has already been settled by law, in the courts, through Affirmative Action, etc. It is no longer an issue for them.



The issue of race has clearly not been settled, if so many white Americans feel threatened by Rev. Wright and his potential influence on Obama.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:14 pm
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
Butrflynet wrote:
One of the good things to come of all this is that people are finally listening, not just hearing Obama. He's getting a lot of press coverage and scrutiny. I hope he uses it to good advantage to start rolling out more of the details of his plans that everyone is craving.


Obama: Grandmother "typical white person"

It's almost like he wants this thing to fester. Does anyone here realistically think Hillary Clinton or any other candidate could get away with this kind of thing? Maybe it will play well in Peoria, but where else??


I got to admit it wasn't a smart thing to say however true it is.

Quote:
"... .. The point I was making was not that my grandmother harbors any racial animosity. She doesn't. But she is a typical white person who, uh, if she sees somebody on the street that she doesn't know there's a reaction that's been been bred into our experiences that don't go away and that sometimes come out in the wrong way and that's just the nature of race in our society. We have to break through it..." - Senator Barack Obama


We can deny it but there is a racial divide in this country still today and I know a lot of older people who do go out of their way to avoid black people if they don't know them and see them walking down the street. Taxes will not pick them up as regular and cops will follow them more. It is a fact. And he is right we do have to break through it. I see all this talk as a good thing even if it does cost him the election; shame though that would be.
0 Replies
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:17 pm
Quote:
"Obama said his generation benefits from the past. 'And that's part of what this campaign has been about, is to say, let's acknowledge a difficult history, but let's move forward in a practical way to get things done.'


Obama decried what Wright had said, but felt that it was because of Wright's time of life, in the generation that saw segregation. Obama talks about "moving forward".

My question: Why would he subject his children, who have NOT lived through segregation to the hate filled rhetoric of a Wright? Was Wright the appropriate pastor to teach his kids? Would Wright be the one to help these children to get beyond the past?

By sending his children to that particular church, is he not letting this minister inculcate his children with the animosities of the past?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:21 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
"Obama said his generation benefits from the past. 'And that's part of what this campaign has been about, is to say, let's acknowledge a difficult history, but let's move forward in a practical way to get things done.'


Obama decried what Wright had said, but felt that it was because of Wright's time of life, in the generation that saw segregation. Obama talks about "moving forward".

My question: Why would he subject his children, who have NOT lived through segregation to the hate filled rhetoric of a Wright? Was Wright the appropriate pastor to teach his kids? Would Wright be the one to help these children to get beyond the past?


Apparently the videos we have been seeing happened over time; I imagine there was more to Wright and the church than it appears just by watching those videos and it is that which and ties to communtiy which kept him and his family in the church. Not really hard to understand unless a person just don't want to.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:23 pm
Why would Obama choose this man as his 'mentor'?
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:23 pm
Has anyone watched the videos I linked to a few pages back?

Here's the link again:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/20/124426/842/246/480797
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:24 pm
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
"Obama said his generation benefits from the past. 'And that's part of what this campaign has been about, is to say, let's acknowledge a difficult history, but let's move forward in a practical way to get things done.'


Obama decried what Wright had said, but felt that it was because of Wright's time of life, in the generation that saw segregation. Obama talks about "moving forward".

My question: Why would he subject his children, who have NOT lived through segregation to the hate filled rhetoric of a Wright? Was Wright the appropriate pastor to teach his kids? Would Wright be the one to help these children to get beyond the past?


Yes, indeed. And that's why, for Jewish people of middle years and younger who never lived through the Holocaust, it is entirely divisive and hate-spewing to remind them of this long ago incident and the dangers of anti-semitism and it's why the celebration of Jewish pride and difference is so destructive to the greater community's unity.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:25 pm
Jonsey wrote:
Quote:
For most, the issue of race has already been settled by law, in the courts, through Affirmative Action, etc. It is no longer an issue for them.



The issue of race has clearly not been settled, if so many white Americans feel threatened by Rev. Wright and his potential influence on Obama.


It is legitimate to want to know what are the true opinions and views of the person who will lead your country for at least the next four years. Of course the issue of race is not decided for everybody. Jeremiah Wright certainly has illustrated that in aces. I haven't picked up that ANYBODY feels in any way threatened by Jeremiah Wright. What they want to know is that if the man who wants to be their president does in fact reject Wright's views or did he condone them for 20 years because that is actually where his heart lies?

Based on the polls and the comments I am reading and hearing, I don't think Obama has yet put that issue to rest. I think he created at least as many questions as he answered with his speech. Some of those have been expressed on this thread today.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:27 pm
blatham wrote:
Phoenix32890 wrote:
Quote:
"Obama said his generation benefits from the past. 'And that's part of what this campaign has been about, is to say, let's acknowledge a difficult history, but let's move forward in a practical way to get things done.'


Obama decried what Wright had said, but felt that it was because of Wright's time of life, in the generation that saw segregation. Obama talks about "moving forward".

My question: Why would he subject his children, who have NOT lived through segregation to the hate filled rhetoric of a Wright? Was Wright the appropriate pastor to teach his kids? Would Wright be the one to help these children to get beyond the past?


Yes, indeed. And that's why, for Jewish people of middle years and younger who never lived through the Holocaust, it is entirely divisive and hate-spewing to remind them of this long ago incident and the dangers of anti-semitism and it's why the celebration of Jewish pride and difference is so destructive to the greater community's unity.


If Jewish parents attempt to teach their children that Germans are despicable people and are still persecuting the Jews and still hate the Jews and are still keeping the Jews down and "God da*m Germany", would you not have a problem with that?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:29 pm
Quote:
who wants to be their president does in fact reject Wright's views or did he condone them for 20 years because that is actually where his heart lies?

Based on the polls and the comments I am reading and hearing, I don't think Obama has yet put that issue to rest. I think he created at least as many questions as he answered with his speech. Some of those have been expressed on this thread today.



I don't know of any poll which says they believe Obama feels the same as the videos which have been circulating of Wright. Some just don't understand why he would stay with him, blah blah blah but they don't think he feels that way. But then I don't visit the same polls as you probably do.
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:30 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
Has anyone watched the videos I linked to a few pages back?

Here's the link again:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/20/124426/842/246/480797



I am sure they haven't. The Ones who need to see it. They only want to smear.

Text form the link:


While many in the main stream media continue to cherry-pick video clips of Rev. Wright that support their meme of him being nothing but a radical firebrand that hate's America and it's people, the real essence and depth of Rev. Wright's character and mission go almost completely unexplored or just plain ignored. If it doesn't fit the polarizing racial narrative that some of the talking heads are running around with and screaming about like hysterical chicken littles (you know who you are Pat Buchanan and Joe Scarborough) then it just won't be shown. Fair and balanced be damned, they got race controversy to peddle.

So, here then are a couple of clips you most likely won't be seeing anywhere on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, NBC or CBS any time soon, of the other, most predominant and characteristic side, of Rev. Wright's preaching. You know, the preaching Barack obviously witnessed and was motivated by.
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:38 pm
Roxxy,

Obama stated in his speech that there were people that would replay the certain video clips over and over again on YouTube....and that would change nothing about our problems....We would be static....stay in our same old rut of not facing our problems and correcting them.

Like on this forum....over and over again...he didn't say enough, he didn't denounce enough...

I think his pastor probably has some other dimensions that he has seen...perhaps Obama's children learn from their father what it is that the pastor is talking about. Just like I tell my half African American grandchildren about race hatred and about MLK.

COME ON PEOPLE! We are adults! He talked to us as adults. That is something.
0 Replies
 
Miller
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:42 pm
But if Obama is an adult, why did he toss his poor, old white Grandma under the bus?
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Thu 20 Mar, 2008 02:44 pm
miller, you don't act like an adult when you keep repeating that.
0 Replies
 
 

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