Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 06:31 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
I would like to know if Hillary Clinton's minister came out on video saying that 9/11 was karma, God's judgement on a hateful america that was allowing minorities to overrun it....and then Hill came on tv and said she disagreed... but had heard such remarks coming from the pulpit on more than one occasion and decided to remain in the church... what you Obamaites would be doing and saying.... letting it ride? Calling a non issue? forgiving and forgetting? I say bullshit.


So you're saying this is a hypothetical double standard? Maybe, but it's kind of hard to find an equivalent example for Hillary given our history, isn't it? I'd argue that the Ferraro flap was a good counterexample, and yeah, I didn't think that reflected on Hillary. She pretty clearly didn't agree with her on that, and just being friends with her, well, that doesn't mean anything. We all have all kinds of friends.

Given what Obama has said about his relationship with Wright, I'm curious what the remaining issue is? Does anyone really believe that Obama secretly hates America or has a radical black panther agenda? What is it that his connection to Wright is supposed to say about him that is so important?


For the 70% of Americans who might consider voting for Obama, he has put this issue to rest. For the non-lucid 30%, those, by and large, who still support Bush, nothing he says or does will EVER win them over.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 06:31 pm
Free Duck, It's interesting isn't it? All these people trying to make something out of a minister who said some bad things and trying to put those words into Obama.

Narrow minds and ignorance are still prevalent in the US. Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 06:31 pm
FreeDuck....you are just TOO logical.... :wink:
0 Replies
 
Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 06:32 pm
Time for the right to try to dredge up another smear. This one is not going to fly.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 06:43 pm
woiyo wrote:
If these statements from Obamas speech are not good enough for Limbaugh, et all..then nothing will satisfy these morons.

Seeing a poster with your general political orientation write these words made my day. That gives me new hope! Thank you Smile
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 06:54 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Well you can't have it both ways. You can't say that he never said he wasn't there and in the next post say that he said he wasn't there without looking like you're spinning like crazy.


Fox, these two posts both preceded yours. What's so difficult to understand here?

sozobe wrote:
What Obama said in the Huffington Post piece that he only recently learned of the specific remarks that set off this firestorm. He didn't say that he'd never heard Wright make controversial remarks.


Cycloptichorn wrote:
He said he wasn't there when the statements in question - such as the 9/11 comment - were made. He didn't say that he never heard the guy say anything objectionable.
0 Replies
 
nappyheadedhohoho
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 06:56 pm
What is disappointing is that when Obama loses (and I actually do think he will lose now - wasn't sure at first) blacks will blame it on racism, when it really is an honesty and leadership issue.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 06:58 pm
If it is an honesty and leadership issue, which candidate are you recommending everyone vote for based on their honesty and leadership?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:00 pm
nappyheadedhohoho wrote:
What is disappointing is that when Obama loses (and I actually do think he will lose now - wasn't sure at first) blacks will blame it on racism, when it really is an honesty and leadership issue.


Just how do you see him losing the nomination? Mathematically.

See, I don't think that you can make pronouncements like this without explaining how you think they will happen. I mean, you can, but nobody should take them seriously.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:23 pm
Freeduck, I have been reading this thread off and on whenever I can take the one-sidedness of so many of the posters. After reading many of your posts, I can say that I just love you and your down-to-earth attitude.

As for my opinion, his speech will prove to be the true moment of truth for hundreds of voters who thus far have been sitting on the fence. The power of his words, his clear vision on race issues--his ability to see both sides without the usual blinders politicians usually wear, was reassuring and inspiring.

PC has done unimaginable damage to this country and has prevented the growth of any real understanding between races of any ethnic origin. This, I hope, is the final turning point in going beyond necessary laws to the realization that we can work and live together and be better off for it.

Obama is one of our last chances to become what we lost so long ago.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:31 pm
Billy Graham's anti-semitism on the nixon tapes...

Quote:
http://www.pass.to/newsletter/0402JewishLeadersAghastAtGraham.htm
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:31 pm
Thank you, Diane, that means a lot to me coming from you.

I really agree with your take on this. I think that there will always be people for whom there is no convincing. But for everyone else, he's not only put this issue to bed, he's shown extraordinary leadership in doing so.

I'm actually encouraged by most of the responses to his speech here. While there has been a lot of noise since then, most of it comes from just a couple of people who are still firmly planted in their foxholes.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:36 pm
Falwell's anti-semitism...

Quote:
The Rev. Jerry Falwell's recent statement that the Antichrist is probably a Jewish man alive today is anti-Semitic and could potentially ignite widespread anti-Semitism, according to officials at Jewish organizations. It has also done serious damage to the dialogue between Jews and evangelical Christians, they say.

Falwell's statement "borders on anti-Semitism at best and is anti-Semitic at worst," said Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League.
http://www.jewishaz.com/jewishnews/990122/falwell.shtml
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:38 pm
Pat Robertson's anti-semitism...

Quote:
I happen to know a little about conspiracy theorists. At the cost of my career as a rising intellectual on the American Right, I exposed Pat Robertson's conspiracy theories about international Jewish bankers, Freemasons and Satanists in the New Republic, the Washington Post and the New York Review of Books between 1992 and 1995.
http://hnn.us/articles/1530.html
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:40 pm
Rod Parsley, McCain's "Spiritual Guide"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFr59VC50tY
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:42 pm
McCain supporter Pastgor Hagee...

Quote:
Pastor John Hagee stated : "the United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West... a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ."
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/48397/
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:43 pm
whew, lol

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:55 pm
The rightwing machine is in full throat doing whatever they can tonite to overturn the positive reception and narrative re Obama's speech. From Tucker Carlson at msnbc to the clowns at fox, the talking point is that Obama didn't go far enough to distance himself from this america-hating Wright and the anti-semite Farrakhan. Limbaugh now has a "daily Reverend Wright Segment".

This is the way it will go, folks. They'll continue the smear.
0 Replies
 
Vietnamnurse
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:57 pm
Thank you, Blatham! That was quite informative.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Tue 18 Mar, 2008 07:57 pm
Let's not forget this gem, Blatham. This isn't a "guilt by association" accusation. This is the man himself.

Quote:
Friday, February 18, 2000


(02-18) 04:00 PDT Greenville, S.C. -- Editor's Note: This article was published on Feb. 18, 2000. In January 2008, at least two national web sites posted links to it. As a result, it appeared in the list of SFGate's Most Read articles.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arizona Sen. John McCain refused to apologize yesterday for his use of a racial slur to condemn the North Vietnamese prison guards who tortured and held him captive during the war.
"I hate the gooks," McCain said yesterday in response to a question from reporters aboard his campaign bus. "I will hate them as long as I live."

McCain, a former Navy pilot who spent five years in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp, was questioned about the language because of a story last month in the Nation magazine reporting his continued use of the slur.

Since then, reports of McCain's language have been circulating on Internet chat sites and e-mails among Asian Americans, many of whom find the the term offensive and inappropriate for an elected official.

McCain's appeal to voters has been as a wartime hero and a feisty politician who speaks his mind and damns the consequences. But his comments on the eve of the key South Carolina primary show the candidate's vaunted "straight talk" in another light.

"The use of a racist slur can't be acceptable for any national leader, regardless of his background," said Diane Chin, executive director of the San Francisco-based Chinese for Affirmative Action. "For someone running for president not to recognize the power of words is a problem."

While McCain's words may have little effect in conservative South Carolina, where few Asian Americans live, they could come back to haunt him in other states.

"Historically, straight talkers who say things off the top of their heads eventually hang themselves with those sorts of remarks," said Bruce Cain, a political scientist at the University of California at Berkeley.

"While it might not hurt him now, Democrats are not going to have any hesitation about using this stuff to string him up later."


TERM FOR HIS CAPTORS
McCain made no apologies yesterday.

"I was referring to my prison guards," McCain said, "and I will continue to refer to them in language that might offend some people because of the beating and torture of my friends."

McCain made it clear that his anger extends only toward his captors. As a senator, he was one of the leaders of the postwar effort to normalize U.S. relations with Vietnam.

Campaign officials do not expect the controversy to hurt McCain, either in tomorrow's South Carolina primary or later in the campaign.

"If people understood the context, they wouldn't be upset," Mike Murphy, a senior adviser to the campaign, said last night.

But the racial slur used by the senator has a long, painful history that is felt by many Asian Americans.

The word "gook" was first used in 1899 by American soldiers fighting Filipino insurgents. During the Korean War, the term was aimed at Koreans and Chinese. It was directed at the Vietnamese when Americans were fighting in Vietnam. It is now used as a slur toward any Asian or Pacific Islander.

The Arizona senator prides himself on running an open campaign. He is surrounded by reporters, television cameras and tape recorders perhaps more than any presidential candidate in history. Reporters are given full access to the candidate between each campaign stop on a customized bus purposefully dubbed the "Straight Talk Express."

The bus, which also carries his top staff and often his wife, Cindy, is crammed with network anchors and local newspaper reporters, who endlessly engage McCain in what amounts to a news conference on wheels.

The comments are usually recorded and always on the record.

Sometimes the questions are pointed and serious. Sometimes they are not.

McCain has declared on his bus, "I hate the French." He often begins meetings with Californians joking, "I hate Californians," noting that they steal Arizona's water and lure his constituents away in the summer.


MCCAIN'S IMPRISONMENT
But those comments are clearly in jest. Yesterday's were not.

McCain was captured after his A-4 Skyhawk was shot down over Hanoi on Oct. 26, 1967. During the time he was held, he was brutally tortured by his captors, finally reaching the point where he was unable to resist signing a "confession."

McCain and his fellow prisoners suffered terribly in the prison camp. In the crowd at yesterday's rally in Greenville was retired Adm. Robert Fuller, who was in prison with McCain at the infamous "Hanoi Hilton."

Fuller, who lives in Jacksonville Beach, Fla., spoke informally of the despair of living in single cells, where the only form of contact was by an ingenious code devised by the prisoners. Fuller said prisoners were sometimes tortured for as many as six days. When they returned, he said, the others would send messages of support by tapping on the wall.

"They would be put in ropes for six days, and they would confess," Fuller said. "When they came back to their cell, guys would tap on the wall, `We love you. I wish we could give you a hug.' "

The horrors of the past cannot be an excuse for hurting people in the present, said Guy Aoki, president of the Media Action Network for Asian Americans, an anti-defamation group.

"If Sen. McCain had been captured by Nigerians, could he call those people `niggers' and think he wasn't going to offend everyone who is black?" Akoi asked. "We can all feel for what he went through, but if that's his level of sensitivity, I'm very disappointed."

McCain usually treats his experience as a prisoner of war as a terrible time in his life, but a period he has moved beyond. At times, he even uses it as a punch line for jokes.

At a pancake breakfast recently, he said he had gone with his daughter to the MTV Music Awards, "and that was the greatest assault on my senses since I was in prison."

Yesterday's comments made it clear that McCain had neither forgotten, nor forgiven, his captors.

"I will call right now, my interrogator that tortured me, a gook," McCain said. "(I can't believe that) anybody doesn't believe these interrogators and prison guards were cruel and sadistic people who deserve the worst appellations possible."

McCain said he does not consider the comment an epithet.

"Gook," he said, "is the kindest appellation I can give."

0 Replies
 
 

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