revel wrote:Foxfyre wrote:I posted this over on the Conservatism thread, but it probably needs to be here too since it gives Obama's side to these issues:
Quote:Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., condemned racially charged sermons by his former pastor Friday and urged Americans not to reject his presidential campaign because of "guilt by association."
Obama's campaign announced that the minister, the Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr., had left its spiritual advisory committee after videotapes of his sermons again ignited fierce debate in news accounts and political blogs.
Obama did not clarify whether Wright volunteered to leave his African American Religious Leadership Committee, a loose group of supporters associated with the campaign, or whether the campaign asked him to leave.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23634881/
Here is the MSNBC interview with Barack Obama re his 'refutation' of Jeremiah Wright's incendiary comments (and also his relationship with Tony Rezko). Do you think he is convincing?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/23640119#23640119
Most politicians do not have a regular attendance on sunday services; so yes; it is possible he missed and did not keep up with those statements from his pastor. I sincerely doubt he feels that way so I believe him when he said he first learned about at the start of his campaign and as Wright was soon to retire didn't see a need to quit that church.
I know there is a lot I do not agree with my preacher about; sometimes I even go home mad when he starts talking about how only republicans can represent Christians (or words to that effect.) But I have ties there and I agree with him on the fundamentals of religious beliefs. I realize the two are not the same and the words from Wright are just unexcusable and unacceptable in any fashion.
I hope this does not hurt his chances as it would be a shame. I honestly think Obama will be good for this country.
He "missed" all of Wright's outrageous statements?
Please.
Wright has made many of these statements and, based on the videos wherein he is always wearing a different outfit, it would appear they have been made on different days. But Obama happened to miss all of them. Amazing timing.
I don't know what to believe.
What's very difficult to believe (that he missed these statements is impossible to believe) is that Obama joined this church and took on Rev Wright as something of a mentor, without knowing the positions the man held.
I have to believe that Rev Wright, and his rhetoric, is quite reknown in the Chicago area, and particularly in the African-American community. Are we to believe that his comments about the US government inventing AIDs, Bill Clinton doing to blacks what he did to Monica Lewinsky (Ridin Dirty!), and God Damn America were isolated abberations? Are to believe that Obama got wind of the Reverends isolated brain-farts only at the start of his campaign?
This analogy of Wright being the nutty uncle who pops off with some off-color remark at the Sunday dinner table is a pathetically weak attempt at damage control.
Likewise Obama's proviso that if he had heard Rev Wright "repeat" these comments he might have left the church. As long as the reverend says different outrageous things every Sunday it's OK with Sen Obama.
What I am left to believe is either
A) Obama's membership in this church has always been little more than a sham that he played up a bit for political advantage.
B) Obama is a committed member of this church and one way or the other he has been OK with Wright's outrageous comments.
"A" would explain how he might truly be unaware of the sort of things said from the pulpit every Sunday.
"B" raises all sorts of questions.
As far as I'm concerned, Rev Wright is perfectly free to preach whatever sort of sermon he pleases providing he doesn't incite his parishioners to violence, and there isn't even a remote suggestion that he ever has. People in the locale are perfectly free to become members of Wright's church and attend services each and every Sunday. Obama is perfectly free to select whatever church or form of religion that suits him.
Wright and even Obama are perfectly free to think that God should damn America, that America deserved 9/11, and that the US government is responsible for AIDs. They are even perfectly free to shout these thoughts to the high heavens.
American voters are perfectly free to factor these things into their decision on who they want to sit in the Oval Office come January 2009.
I seriously doubt Obama believes America deserved 9/11, but I'm not so sure he is not of the opinion that we (through our government of course) brought it upon ourselves.
I seriously doubt Obama believes that the US government is responsible for AIDs, but I am not so sure that he doesn't believe that the US government was in some way negligent in its response to the disease because the first victim group was homosexuals and the second was blacks.
I don't for a minute believe that Obama wants God to damn America, but I suspect that he doesn't have the same visceral reaction to such a call as I do.
These is all well and good. Maybe our foreign policy played out in a way that assured terrorist attacks on our soil. Maybe the US government didn't respond to AIDs as quickly as it might if the victims comprised a much broader demographic, and maybe I over-react to people damning America. I have no doubt, at all, that there are many of my fellow Americans and many of my fellow A2Kers who will respond yes, yes and yes.
Fine, but if Obama is of the same sort of mind, we, as a people, should know it. His reaction to this political firestorm which was obviously politically crafted, never-the-less suggests that he is more in sync with my take on these topics than with the A2Kers who support him and are about to pounce.
New Politics vs Old Politics?
These sorts of flaps are common to all campaigns. For whatever reason, the candidate frequently finds himself with the choice of sticking by a trusted friend, advisor or mentor or throwing them under the bus.
Old Politics: Hem and haw for a bit, but eventually throw them under the bus with the best possible face one can muster.
New Politics: Don't make friends with bigots, and anti-Americans, but if you do, explain why you did and stand by them. Refuse to get bulldozed by the Media and your opponents. Don't trot out the lame explanation that you tolerated the (of late) miscreant because after twenty years as your mentor, he is now retiring.
Of course Obama is not New Politics personified. In part because there is no such thing as New Politics. This is yet another example of the fundamental correctness of conservatism. "Old Politics" is politics as it has been for thousands and thousands of years. Those of us (the overwhelming majority of citizens) who do not devote body and soul to politics have little tolerance for the required bullshit, but required it is.
I liken it to professional sports. The average Joe Fan goes to a game and is likely to scream at the substitute 2nd baseman for making an error. Of course, this "bum" is far and away a better athlete than about 99.8% of the population. The "bum" playing in the game is exponentially better than virtually everyone watching him from the stands.
I played baseball in HS and I was OK. OK in HS baseball is a .400 batting average and a 1.01 ERA. One year we played a team that had a pitcher named Neal Heaton on its roster. Heaton went on to be a journeyman pitcher in the majors, who played for Cleveland and Montreal (among other teams) and who never had more than 13 wins in a year (Same year he had 10 losses).
The game we played against Heaton earned him a spot in the last page of Sports Illustrated: We were a pretty good team, but Heaton struck out 26 in a row. The last out was a pop up to (who else?) the pitcher.
The people who achieve elected positions are like professional athletes. Local government is AA; while State government is AAA. Federal government is the majors and if you find yourself running for President, you are a winner of the Triple Crown, Cy Young or MVP.
The average citizen understands the intensity of politics as much as the average fan understands the complexity of an NFL offense.
There are no Mr Smith's in Washington, and Obama is certainly not one of them. He has had some neat breaks in his political career, but if he were not a consummate Old School politician, he would not be about to win the Democratic nomination for the presidency.
So spare me the idealist
fanaticism from the bleachers. A-Rod could give a sh*t about the fans in New York and Obama is not running for you.
PS: Would you bring your young daughters to a church on Sunday where the minister told the congregation that "Bill (Clinton, a former president of the United States)
did us (African-Americans) just like he
did Monica Lewinsky. He was riding dirty!"
I thought I was depraved, but what the hell is "Riding dirty?" Got to be sexual and, in the circles I travel, got to be inappropriate for minors.
YouTube enshrinement: The jackass that breaks from the (choir, mass of deacons, elders...) and punches Wright in a "Right On Brother" gesture after his "Bill did us like he did the jew bitch" homily.
