Obama '08?

It's a lot more fun, because Bernie doesn't know he's been hit! LOL

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
In any case even within the context of the construct, choosing the white candidate over the perfectly matched black candidate is not proof of racism.
True, it is not. But seriously Finn, would you do otherwise? I can honestly say that I couldn't do the same in a 50/50 situation between a man and woman for fear that maternal instinct could interfere with the hardest of all decisions... mostly because of other's instincts and how they may view the probability... but not entirely.

Seriously Bill, I can't say. It's such an impossible hypothetical that I can't even imagine it. In any case, I've already voted for black candidates running against white candidates. In my opinion at least, they were all better choices than their opponents. I guess that will have to do.

Of course it doesn't prove I'm not a racist, just that if I am, I am capable of recognizing exceptions.

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blatham wrote:

finn said
Quote:
Tiger Woods has had two parents of color and yet one seems to play a greater role in how the external world sees him.
[/color]

If by "the external world" you mean the rest of the US outside your door, sure. It is decidedly not true elsewhere, most acutely in Asian coverage.

Not tough to understand why - in either case.

Pardon my chauvinism blatham, I did mean the rest of the US outside my door, and probably Canada, Europe, Australia, Africa, and South America too. Perhaps you can enlighten me, because it is tough for me to understand. I simply don't buy the notion that it is due to the slavery days equation for race classification.

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snood wrote:

Tiger Woods is pretty widely recognized as the best golfer of the last decade, by far. There is only a very small group of two or three golfers who regularly challenge him. He's renowned for his work ethic, and his talent. Not saying you're saying this, but just as some perspective - to say Tiger Wodds is a famous golfer because of his ethnicity would be like to say Michael Jordan got his fame because he is black. His presence in the sport has inspired a lot more blacks to get into golf, but that has been just a side benefit.

I agree completely. He is reknowed for his singular talent. He would be no more or less famous if he were white as the driven snow.

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dyslexia wrote:

It is soo much fun having Mr Possum R Fartbubble back among us, just like a fungus. I had hoped for a name change though, perhaps he lost his creativity in the direction.

bill wrote:

Is there anything more amusing than watching Nimh politely thrash fools who try to use election facts and stats to accuse him of ignorance?

frank wrote:

Go Nimh!

You rule, man!

Of course, Bernie will never acknowledge that he is being blown out of the water. But as has already been noted...it is fun to watch both the carnage and the denial.

CI wrote:

It's a lot more fun, because Bernie doesn't know he's been hit! LOL

There's something petty and unseemly about a gang of posters commenting like this about another.

If you disagree with or find fault in BernardR's arguments why not address them and him directly?

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Finn, It's not possible to have a normal discussion with Bernie; he makes outrageious claims about things, never answers questions that he finds uncomfortable, and projects our statements into unrecognizable trash like the other right-wingers. His pseudo politeness actually hides his sadistic attacks on people.

You can try; I've given up.

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BTW, this is Massagato from Abuzz; that should say it all for people who are familiar with his trash.

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

snood wrote:
Tiger Woods is pretty widely recognized as the best golfer of the last decade, by far. There is only a very small group of two or three golfers who regularly challenge him. He's renowned for his work ethic, and his talent. Not saying you're saying this, but just as some perspective - to say Tiger Wodds is a famous golfer because of his ethnicity would be like to say Michael Jordan got his fame because he is black. His presence in the sport has inspired a lot more blacks to get into golf, but that has been just a side benefit.

I agree completely. He is reknowed for his singular talent. He would be no more or less famous if he were white as the driven snow.

Well, I don't know about that. If anything, I think the novelty of his ethnicity combined with his talent has made him more of a show.

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Nimm says:

Well, if many held their noses at the time, they seem to be relieved about the outcome now, considering that almost 3/4 of them approve of the job he's done since.

Nimh knows nothing about Politics in Illinois. Nimh does not know( I am sure) that the State had a do-nothing African-American Senator named Carol Mosely Braun(THE INCUMBENT) who got her clock cleaned by a Republican named Peter Fitrgerald.

Fitzgerald beat her by 90,000 votes. He pointed out that she had been to Nigeria more than she had been to Rockford( a large city in Illinois)

FItzgerald would have also beaten Obama if he had run against him in 2004. I will check on reports from that time to show that the pundits would have favored Fitzgerald.

Again, Nimm doesn't know a thing about Illinois politics and I can show that again and again.

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I have read Obama's autobiography. Has anyone else read it.

When certain aspects of the background of William Jefferson Clinton came to light, there was some furor in the press in 1992.

In Obama's autobiography, three special points stood out for me---

l. Obama admitted that he was into Cocaine as a young man.

2. Obama indicated that he attended two years in a Muslim School( His father was a Muslim)

3. Obama's father( a Kenyan) deserted his Caucasian mother when Barack was a child.

As I have pointed out, it would be my fervent hope that Barack Obama would be chosen as the Vice Presidential Candidate in 2008 for the Democrats. I am sure that, while he would garner some extra African-American votes, he would lost millions of other voters who would normally vote Democratic.

Unfortunately, Millions of American voters would, I am certain, equate Obama with the race carders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who, as everyone is aware, work only for the benefit of their own ethnic group--African Americans!

Here is a conservative(Phyllis Schafly) with her run down on Obama previous to the election in 2004--

Obama is one of the most leftwing Senate candidates Illinois has ever seen, a me-too vote for Kennedy and Clinton to raise taxes and toady to the teachers unions. Obama supports abortion rights, socialized medicine, and affirmative action, and he opposes private gun ownership.

Obama voted against the "live-birth abortion" bill which was designed to protect live babies born of botched abortions. Obama voted "present" on an Illinois bill to ban partial-birth abortion, and "present" on a bill to notify parents when their minor children seek an abortion.

Obama wrote a letter to the Windy City Times, Chicago's premier gay news source, to promise his support for gay marriage. He said, "I opposed DOMA [the Defense of Marriage Act] in 1996. It should be repealed and I will vote for its repeal on the Senate floor. I will also oppose any proposal to amend the U.S. Constitution to ban gays and lesbians from marrying."

end of quote:

He is the only one I can find who would be to the LEFT of Hillary Rodham Clinton!!!! That is why he could never be acceptable to the US voters( except the African-Americans)

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Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

bill wrote:
Is there anything more amusing than watching Nimh politely thrash fools who try to use election facts and stats to accuse him of ignorance?

There's something petty and unseemly about a gang of posters commenting like this about another.

If you disagree with or find fault in BernardR's arguments why not address them and him directly?

I did. His arguments, aside from being racist and reasonably right on occasion, have mostly been ad hominem attacks on Nimh. While you and I frequently disagree with Nimh's politics, I've never seen you attack him in such an idiotic way... probably because you, like I, respect Nimh. I am certainly no member of the gang you're describing, and in fact, generally disagree with most of them, most of the time. But wrong is wrong and BernardR's assessments and accusations are comically wrong. Which is of course, why I found it amusing in the first place.

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BernardR wrote:

Because Nimh does not know a thing about Illinois Politics, he does not know that Alan Keyes was a LAST MINUTE REPLACEMENT FOR OBAMA.

Again, Nimm knows nothing about Illinois Politics. [..]

Keyes came in at the last minute. Of course, Nimh does not know this

Bernard, I wrote about Jack Ryan, the Republican candidate who had to stand down (opening the way for Alan Keyes to take his place), on this forum already back on June 25, 2004. In fact - not that it's necessarily something to be proud about - I was the first one to ever mention his name on a2k (here).

BernardR wrote:

Nimh knows nothing about Politics in Illinois. Nimh does not know( I am sure) that the State had a do-nothing African-American Senator named Carol Mosely Braun(THE INCUMBENT) who got her clock cleaned by a Republican named Peter Fitrgerald.

Fitzgerald beat her by 90,000 votes. [..]

FItzgerald would have also beaten Obama if he had run against him in 2004. I will check on reports from that time to show that the pundits would have favored Fitzgerald.

OK, you cant have it both ways, Bernie.

Either Illinois is a "state which has a huge African-American population", and his "constituents are Democrats in a Democratic State", and it's therefore no wonder Obama got elected and is getting such good approval ratings;

Or Illinois would actually have elected the white Republican Fitzgerald over the Afro-American Democrat Obama if he had run against him in 2004, just like it elected him over the Afro-American Democrat Mosely-Brown before, and the pundits certainly would have favored Fitzgerald.

In the latter case, of course, it is quite remarkable that now, almost three-quarter years after his election, Illinois constituents are more enthusiastic about Obama than any other state's constituents are about either of their Senators. In the latter case, it means that lots of voters who voted Bush for President and voted Fitzgerald against Mosely-Brown, like they would have intended to vote for him against Obama, are now nevertheless pleased with the job Obama is doing. In that case, I think Obama is indeed doing a very good job - which was the one sentence of mine which triggered all your fierce disagreement.

BernardR wrote:

He is the only one I can find who would be to the LEFT of Hillary Rodham Clinton!!!! That is why he could never be acceptable to the US voters( except the African-Americans)

I can assure you there are a lot more Democrats in office who are to the left of Hillary, thank god.

And again, Obama seems perfectly acceptable to the whites of Illinois, who both voted for him and now approve of the job he's been doing in large numbers.

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(on the a2k-internal digression)

OCCOM BILL wrote:

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
There's something petty and unseemly about a gang of posters commenting like this about another.

If you disagree with or find fault in BernardR's arguments why not address them and him directly?

I did. His arguments, aside from being racist and reasonably right on occasion, have mostly been ad hominem attacks

Right. There's definitely something petty and unseemly about the bile, insults and putdowns which Bernard richly laces his every post with, whenever he addresses any poster he disagrees with. Obviously.

But since Bernard is a right-winger, you wont hear Finn speak up about that. In fact, all of the last five times Finn mentioned Bernard it was to back him up, support him or praise him, sometimes adding an ad hominem of his own as well.

OK, so the way I see it, most any reasonable poster would discount Bernard as much as Roxxxanne, in each of both their myriad identities.

Then there are some overly kind people who will try to see the good in both of them.

And finally, there is Finn's sort. Who will gladly pile on a venomous eccentric like that if she represents "the other side" - Roxxanne, for example, is a "twit"; but who, on the other hand, will consistently defend any equivalent if he happens to be on their "side".

It's those people who, IMO, rank lowest on integrity. Lower, in fact, than Bernard himself, who obviously just cant help himself.

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snood wrote:

Dizzy Delicious wrote:

What has the Senator from Illinois done recently for all the poor Blacks in Chicago?

For three years Barack Obama was the director of Developing Communities Project, an institutionally based community organization on Chicago's far south side.

Here are some of the projects he was directly involved with...
e

Reading for Life Adult Literacy (RFL)
Reading for Life is an adult education program offering Adult Basic Education courses. Full-time staff and volunteers manage the program. The courses help prepare participants for continued education, job training and an enhanced quality of life. Group sessions and one-on-one tutoring are offered. All courses, tutoring and materials are free of charge.

ATOD Prevention
ATOD (Alcohol, Tobacco, and Other Drugs) is the focus of the prevention message that DCP brings to 6th, 7th, and 8th grade students in Greater Roseland schools. DCP's ATOD Prevention Specialist, trained in Botvin's and Allstars Programs, also instructs students in anger management, self-image, making healthy decisions, violence and media influence, coping with anxiety, communication and social skills, and conflict resolution. As part of its comprehensive school program, DCP organizes a Parent Conference and an ATOD Showcase each year.

Young Women's Leadership Development (YWLD)
This program provides a comprehensive support system for girls and young women. Emulating a similar project in San Francisco, YWLD offers guidance
in education, mental/physical health, leadership, self-esteem, and spiritual development. Emphasis is placed on creating a non-judgmental nurturing atmosphere in which young women may share experiences and learn from each other. The program is structured to provide a foundation for building life-long skills in the areas of parenting, community/political involvement, career development and economic empowerment.

He also worked for a civil rights law firm in Chicago.

I guess this counts as "recently"; he's been in politics since 1996 and any help of the poor after that would have to be found in the legislation he was for or against, and that's harder to find.

From what I've seen though, he comes pretty solidly down on the side of ordinary, or less fortunate folks.

What's your beef?

Have I a beef? If I were Black and poor and a resident of Chicago's South Side (>90% black population )and I'd wonder why Obama lives in a deluxe home in Hyde Park and why he hires no Blacks to work in his home? Isn't the Nanny a Hispanic? Has he boycotted Jackson's RainBow group?

Now, Bud, what's your beef?

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Finn said it-- Just rebut his(my) arguments. But fellow travelers like Occom Bill are either unwilling or unable to do that.....Neither is Nimh.

He thinks he knows Illinois Politics> I have worked in Illinois Politics. Nimh is sitting in a Hungarian Outhouse( that's how much room the people have in Hungary and telling me about Illinois Politics.

What a laugh!!!

Let's take Nimm's points one at a time..

first of all, it is obvious that Nimm does not even know what a racist is. Nimh's education is obvioulsy lacking.

The dictionary definition of Racism is:

A DOCTRINE THAT I N H E R E N T DIFFERENCES AMONG THE VARIOUS HUMAN RACES DETERMINE CULTURAL OR INDIVIDUAL ACHIEVEMENT.

Now. if Nimh can find any point that I made which is included in such a definition, he should say so,, buit if he can't he is indulging in the saem tired race card playing that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton indulge in when they say--"Wait, you can't jail that man, just because he robbed fifteen grocery stores--that' Racism.

It is obvious that Mr. Nimh knows NOTHING about racism.

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It is obvious that Mr. Nimh cannot handle someone who does not agree with him. He now is using the old tactic-_Well, he is not a "good" person, so there is no need to respond to him.

Mr. Nimh does not know that I do not expect any decent response from A HungarianSocialist who knows nothing about the USA. I post for myself and others who may be interested in reading what I post.

Is it your postion, Mr. Nimh, that I should not have the freedom to post?

Typical of people who live in totalitarian countries such as the Crypto-Fascist Hungary!!!

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BernardR wrote:

I have worked in Illinois Politics.

"In Illinois politics scandal is the norm." as the Chicago Tribune headlined recently.

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I posted the following- It is not fiction, it is fact and anyone who reads Senator Obama's autobiography( I have) can find these facts in his book.

I have read Obama's autobiography. Has anyone else read it.
************************************************************
When certain aspects of the background of William Jefferson Clinton came to light, there was some furor in the press in 1992.

In Obama's autobiography, three special points stood out for me---

l. Obama admitted that he was into Cocaine as a young man.

2. Obama indicated that he attended two years in a Muslim School( His father was a Muslim)

3. Obama's father( a Kenyan) deserted his Caucasian mother when Barack was a child.

As I have pointed out, it would be my fervent hope that Barack Obama would be chosen as the Vice Presidential Candidate in 2008 for the Democrats. I am sure that, while he would garner some extra African-American votes, he would lost millions of other voters who would normally vote Democratic.

Unfortunately, Millions of American voters would, I am certain, equate Obama with the race carders like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, who, as everyone is aware, work only for the benefit of their own ethnic group--African Americans!

Here is a conservative(Phyllis Schafly) with her run down on Obama previous to the election in 2004--

Obama is one of the most leftwing Senate candidates Illinois has ever seen, a me-too vote for Kennedy and Clinton to raise taxes and toady to the teachers unions. Obama supports abortion rights, socialized medicine, and affirmative action, and he opposes private gun ownership.

Obama voted against the "live-birth abortion" bill which was designed to protect live babies born of botched abortions. Obama voted "present" on an Illinois bill to ban partial-birth abortion, and "present" on a bill to notify parents when their minor children seek an abortion.

Obama wrote a letter to the Windy City Times, Chicago's premier gay news source, to promise his support for gay marriage. He said, "I opposed DOMA [the Defense of Marriage Act] in 1996. It should be repealed and I will vote for its repeal on the Senate floor. I will also oppose any proposal to amend the U.S. Constitution to ban gays and lesbians from marrying."

end of quote:

He is the only one I can find who would be to the LEFT of Hillary Rodham Clinton!!!! That is why he could never be acceptable to the US voters( except the African-Americans)

************************************************************

Now, someone called Dizzy Delicious posts Senator Obama's exploits.

Fine, except that some Chicago Aldermen have done as much and that those "exploits" have no bearing on my post on Obama's past.

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Mr.Walter Hinteler tells us that Scandal is the norm in Illinois Politics.

He is, of course, correct. How could it be any other way?

49 of the 50 Aldermen in Chicago are Democrats.

The two Senators, Dick Turban( a staunch defender of the Taliban and Barracks Obama( An African-American political opportunist who has inherited the mantle of Jetstream Jesse Jackson) are Democrats.

The Mayor is a Democrat.

The city of Chicago is a pit of corruption.

Mr. Walter Hinterler had it right.

What he does not know is that I worked for the opposition to this corruption.

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