Obama '08?

I voted for Goldwater, I also voted of Jimmy Carter.

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OCCOM BILL wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Hey...

...as you folks know, normally I am all over the American conservative movement and agenda...mostly because I consider it to be the most hypocritical, sleazy pocket of dung ever to gain prominence in a free society.

BUT...

...on this occasion I have come to praise them.

I think it is admirable that so many American conservative in this forum have come forward to speak to you good folks...Democrats and liberals...folks whom they normally would not deign to piss on if any of you burst into flames...

...to warn you not to make a mistake and back a candidate who obviously is a very, very weak choice.

And it almost is unnecessary to note that they are doing this despite the fact that it would be to their advantage to have the weakest possible candidate opposing the person they will back just as soon as they are told whom to back.

Damn nice of them!

They could just as easily keep their mouths shut and let you folks do the thing they sense will hurt you most in the 2008 election.

But...they are putting their sense of decency and integrity before expediency to warn you off this terrible mistake.

As I said...damn nice fo them.
Good to see you Frank, but that's just so much happy horseshit.

A. I think Obama is among the strongest potential candidates the Democrats could offer.

B. I want them to send their best man to force the Republicans to run a popular Moderate, rather than sending another dope that allows the Republicans to defeat them with another hardliner.

The check is in the mail, Bill.

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OBill wrote:
A. I think Obama is among the strongest potential candidates the Democrats could offer.

B. I want them to send their best man to force the Republicans to run a popular Moderate, rather than sending another dope that allows the Republicans to defeat them with another hardliner.

I agree 100 percent, but what bothers me most is the republican base that even got Bush into the white house. That possibility still exists when considered from the onward christian soldiers of the right wing.

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Again, I must reiterate:

You may be right, Thomas, but then, again, you may not be. I have no scientific data to prove this but I am always very very suspicious of people who have come from a broken home. You are, of course, aware of the effect abandonment has on a child. You know, I am sure, that Senator Obama's Kenyan father deserted the family when Senator Obama was quite young and that Senator Obama was raised by his Caucasian mother and grandparents.

Such events cannot, in my opinion, fail to be of supreme importance in one's psyche. We can only hope that they have somehow been transmuted into positive forces. But, remembering Clinton's horrible home life and then viewing his psychological failings, I must remain distrustful!!

As I have already noted, Senator Obama spent two years of his life in a Muslim School. No one knows how and if that affected him.

But, there is another problem which may be researched. When pollsters have gone out to see whether Blacks will get a large number of votes from non-blacks, it is my recollection that they always came up with a bigger number than those who actually voted for the black candidate.

At this time, Representative Ford is running for the Senate in Tennessee.

It will be interesting to see the differences between the polls and the actual votes. I am sure that the polls will give Ford more votes than he will receive in the voting booths.

The case is similar with Lynn Swann.

Why is this the case? Are Americans racist? A few are but racism is dead. Are Americans ethnocentric? Certainly. They will tend to vote for their own.

When Representative Ford is defeated in Tennessee in November, I will post the numbers he received in the polls and the numbers he got in the actual election. There will be a sizeable difference.

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BernardR wrote:

When Representative Ford is defeated in Tennessee in November, I will post the numbers he received in the polls and the numbers he got in the actual election. There will be a sizeable difference.

You said Americans are not racists. Are you implying they are liars?

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Mr. Francis:

When most Americans vote( notice that I said most) they vote for people whose political philosophy parallels theirs. They are, I am sure, suspicious of anyone who belongs to a group which has loudly claimed that they have been shut out of the Society. Note has been taken of African-American leaders using the race card to gain ever more benefits on a racial basis.

Americans will stoutly deny any racism. I think they are telling the truth on the whole.

Racism, as you may be aware, Francis, is the ascription of characteristics to a group solely based on racial data. Racism is the belief that INHERENT DIFFERENCES among the races determine cultural or individual achievement.

The American People do not believe that. There are too many examples of cultural and individual achievement displayed by various races for anyone but an ignorant person to believe such a thing.

But, Francis, the people are Ethnocentric. This is, of course, different from racism. They tend to vote FOR people like themselves rather than people who are not like them. Insofar as they identify with the policies and goals laid down by a person like Senator Obama, they will vote for him.

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I can see the great achievement performed by yourself in your answer, Bernard.

The one which consists in eluding the question.

Precisely, why do Americans tell one thing to the polls and vote differently? (You said that).

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Obama is doing very well...

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Nimh, who obviously does not know very much about American Politics( He thinks it is like the Hungarian crypto Communist elections) thinks Obama is doing very well.

Professer Numh evidently does not know that the left wing press loves to feature African-American Candidates and that Obama won in a state( Illinois) which has a huge African-American population) and that Obama ran against a non-entity.

I look forward to watching any race that Obama will enter.

If Obama enters, for example, the Vice Presidential Race, he will obtain more African- American votes. The Black vote, which I am sure Professor Nimh does not know about, gave an estimated 89% of its votes to President Bush in the last election.

Why, Obama might even pick up that number to 96%. The only problem is that he would lose about 10 Million Democrats who would be suspicious of his candidacy.

Why?

l. Middle America is very weary of the race card and the destruction of their hopes by Affirmative Action.

2. If Professor Nimh thinks that Senator Obama would get a huge slice of the Hispanic Vote, he knows absolutely NOTHING about the cultural and social dynamics involved in our US cities.

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Mr. Francis:

Your question is easy to answer:

If you require, I can obtain additional data for which will buttress my response.

l. When polled( on the phone, perhaps?) and someone is asked whether they would vote for Senator Obama, most Americans, who have been fed the left wing garbage about how personally guilty they MUST FEEL about slavery, etc. etc. and have been brainwashed into the attitude that they must never ever say anything which, even if correct, will in anyway criticize any African-American in any way, will respond with a --" I always vote for the most qualified candidate" or "Certainly, I would consider voting for Senator Obama"

But, in the privacy of the voting booth, most people will carefully gauge their interests and vote their interests. After decades of African-American moaning and groaning about how the majority society is discriminating against them, many Americans, including a large section of blue-collar Democrats, who have, rightly or wrongly, concluded that their job prospects and their home values have been affected by African-Americans will NOT vote for someone like Senator Obama.

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BernardR wrote:

... most Americans, who have been fed the left wing garbage about how personally guilty they MUST FEEL about slavery, etc. etc. and have been brainwashed into the attitude that they must never ever say anything which, even if correct, will in anyway criticize any African-American in any way...

One could conclude that the right wing has an excuse to be a liar...but I know nothing about American politics...

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BernardR wrote:

Nimh, who obviously does not know very much about American Politics( He thinks it is like the Hungarian crypto Communist elections) thinks Obama is doing very well.

Well, yes - with almost three-quarters of his constituents approving of the job he's doing, and less than a quarter disapproving, I think he's doing very well as a Senator. I mean, considering that no other single Senator can boast the same approval among his voters.

BernardR wrote:

Professer Numh evidently does not know that [..] Obama won in a state( Illinois) which has a huge African-American population

"Huge"? Hardly. According to the US Census Bureau, just 15,1% of the population of Illinois is black - only marginally more than the US-wide average (12,8%).

BernardR wrote:

and that Obama ran against a non-entity.

That's rather irrelevant when the reason I'm noting that Obama is doing very well is how his constituents appreciate the job he has been doing since.

BernardR wrote:

The Black vote, which I am sure Professor Nimh does not know about, gave an estimated 89% of its votes to President Bush in the last election.

To John Kerry, you mean.

BernardR wrote:

Why, Obama might even pick up that number to 96%. The only problem is that he would lose about 10 Million Democrats who would be suspicious of his candidacy.

Why?

l. Middle America is very weary of the race card and the destruction of their hopes by Affirmative Action.

I agree that his race will play against him. I'm not as optimistic as some other posters on that count.

BernardR wrote:

2. If Professor Nimh thinks that Senator Obama would get a huge slice of the Hispanic Vote, he knows absolutely NOTHING about the cultural and social dynamics involved in our US cities.

Well, you have to wonder. Considering that Obama's current work is approved by a whopping 72% of Illinois voters, and considering only 15% of the people of Illinois is black, he must be in pretty good stead among the non-Hispanic whites (66%) and Hispanics (14%) in the state as well.

I am no Professor by the way, and have never claimed to be one.

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It is apparent that you know very very little about US Politics, Professor Numm.

First of all, the Senator's constituents are Democrats in a Democratic State who even give Senator Dick Turban good ratings. Are you so ignorant on polls that you do not know that most people would not dare to criticize an African-American even on the phone with a pollster?

As I said and will repeat, that will be done in the polling booth if Senator Obama thinks he should run for Nationwide office.

Do you know how many people voted in the Senatorial Election In Illinois in 2004, Professer Numh?

Do you know who Senator Obama's opponent was in the election, Mr. Numm? I think not.

Do you know that over 90% of the African-American Community voted for Barack Obama, Mr. Numm? Do you know how large a block that is even if it comes from only 15% of the populace?

Do you know that Senator Obama's opponent was so far to the right that even moderate voters who would normally not vote for Obama held their noses and voted for Obama?

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BernardR wrote:

First of all, the Senator's constituents are Democrats in a Democratic State

Obama took the Senate seat that was previously held by Sen. Peter Fitzgerald - a Republican. It seems Obama's constituents include quite a large number of sometime Republican voters.

Or to put this another way, in Illinois Bush got 44% of the vote in 2004. That means that a significant number of people who voted Bush then, now approve of the job Obama is doing as their Senator.

BernardR wrote:

who even give Senator Dick Turban good ratings.

If you'll look at the chart we're discussing, you'll see that Sen. Richard Durbin only gets an approval rating of 54%, with disapproval at 38% - a merely average score. Obama does much better than his senior colleague. There is apparently something special about Obama.

BernardR wrote:

Are you so ignorant on polls that you do not know that most people would not dare to criticize an African-American even on the phone with a pollster?

Why would such a reluctance to express disapproval at an African-American's work be at work in Obama's case, when it obviously does not stop people from expressing disapproval at the job that, say, Condoleezza Rice is doing? In the last poll on her performance, just 52% approved - a full 20 points less than in Obama's case - and 43% disapproved. If Rice were a Senator, she would, with those numbers, have languished somewhere in the bottom half. Obviously it is not Obama's African-American race that brings him to the top of the list.

BernardR wrote:

Do you know how many people voted in the Senatorial Election In Illinois in 2004, Professer Numh?

Irrelevant; the poll was not among only those who voted last time, but among those who are eligible to vote.

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You are supremely ignorant about the Illinois Election, Mr. Nimh.

I would suggest that you look up the background of Senator Obama's opponent in 204. Mickey Mouse would have won the race against Mr. Keyes.

Are you professing to have expertise about an election you know virtually nothing about?

Stick to your Hungarian Communists!!

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Ah, you added some, I see.

BernardR wrote:

Do you know who Senator Obama's opponent was in the election, Mr. Numm? I think not.

Alan Keyes of course. Quite a character. Also African-American, I'll note. It seems people had no hesitation criticizing him, though.

BernardR wrote:

Do you know that over 90% of the African-American Community voted for Barack Obama, Mr. Numm? Do you know how large a block that is even if it comes from only 15% of the populace?

Ehm, yes. 90% of a 15% voting block makes for.. 13,5% of the state's voters.

Not much to go on.

But then, Obama also won 82% of the Latino/Hispanic vote, and 66% of the White vote.

BernardR wrote:

Do you know that Senator Obama's opponent was so far to the right that even moderate voters who would normally not vote for Obama held their noses and voted for Obama?

Well, if many held their noses at the time, they seem to be relieved about the outcome now, considering that almost 3/4 of them approve of the job he's done since.

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It is soo much fun having Mr Possum R Fartbubble back among us, just like a fungus. I had hoped for a name change though, perhaps he lost his creativity in the direction.

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Fun like a fungus - I like that one.

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Is there anything more amusing than watching Nimh politely thrash fools who try to use election facts and stats to accuse him of ignorance? Laughing

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Go Nimh!

You rule, man!

Of course, Bernie will never acknowledge that he is being blown out of the water. But as has already been noted...it is fun to watch both the carnage and the denial.

Twisted Evil

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