Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 11:44 am
sozobe wrote:
:-) Cycloptichorn...

Roxxxanne wrote:
If Hillary wins 65% of the remaining vote, it will be the biggest comeback in our history. The only reasons this race hasn't been declared over is that the media is gun shy after NH and the myth that one should never "count out the Clintons."


We-el-lllll, I wouldn't go that far. A lot of stuff could happen yet.


Well, yes, it could come out that Obama is hiding a rape conviction or something like that. But barring that, it is OVER.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 11:52 am
I'll grant that as of right now things are looking better for Obama than for Hillary. But there are many more things than a rape conviction that could affect the result.

Just humor me -- you predicted a win in NH and see how that turned out! ;-)
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 12:08 pm
Teamsters set to endorse Obama:

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/02/teamsters_plan_to_endorse_obam_1.php
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 12:28 pm
I think the oddsmakers are pretty much betting it all on Obama at this time. But then strange things do happen. If it is a brokered convention anything could happen including both Hillary and Obama being rejected in favor of somebody else. Not likely. But not impossible either.

The scary part comes after your preferred candidate wins, however, especially he has been built up into a messiah-like figure to the point of near worship as Obama has been. The man is terrific - charismatic, articulate, compelling, and probably more honest than most - but he puts on his pants one leg at a time just the same. And when there is no slack allowed for any weakness, and unless his performance in office is stellar, his luster could fade quickly.

Right now, if I had to bet on probability coupled with the esteem for Obama being real, Obama will be the next president of the United States, however.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 12:54 pm
Fox, No, that already happened when the republicans voted in Bush for the second term. Unfortunately, Bush himself have said he talks to god all the time more than he talks to his biological father.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 12:58 pm
Wow. He might actually pull this off! Quite incredible, really. He is, as Karl Rove stated, 'a historical american political figure'.

Assuming he gets the nomination, and I now assume he will, his next impediment will be the rightwing propaganda machine, already in action but barely begun. Here's just one small corner, from Alterman...
Quote:
The attack of the right-wing Jews on Obama is just getting started. Recall that a staffer of the American Jewish Committee circulated a memo to Washington policy types that came pretty close to proposing a campaign of character assassination. Then, last week we read of Malcolm Hoenlein of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations* making a series of unsupportable allegations against Obama here. Last week also saw a dishonest attack on Obama adviser Samantha Power (you can read about that here). Today, The New York Sun, which exists largely for these purposes, attempting to cast aspersions on adviser Rob Malley, here. It's as distasteful as it is transparent; what's more it's contrary to the values and principles of most American Jews, making these people's claims of representation as fraudulent as their arguments.


These attacks will not be haphazard nor mild. They will be co-ordinated and appear from thousands of disparate 'origination' points. They will be backed by multi-millions in funding.

I make a pleading to all. Please read The Tentacles of Rage by Lewis Lapham of Harpers. This essay details what any progressive candidate or movement is facing.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:01 pm
blatham wrote:
Wow. He might actually pull this off! Quite incredible, really. He is, as Karl Rove stated, 'a historical american political figure'.

Assuming he gets the nomination, and I now assume he will, his next impediment will be the rightwing propaganda machine, already in action but barely begun. Here's just one small corner, from Alterman...
Quote:
The attack of the right-wing Jews on Obama is just getting started. Recall that a staffer of the American Jewish Committee circulated a memo to Washington policy types that came pretty close to proposing a campaign of character assassination. Then, last week we read of Malcolm Hoenlein of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations* making a series of unsupportable allegations against Obama here. Last week also saw a dishonest attack on Obama adviser Samantha Power (you can read about that here). Today, The New York Sun, which exists largely for these purposes, attempting to cast aspersions on adviser Rob Malley, here. It's as distasteful as it is transparent; what's more it's contrary to the values and principles of most American Jews, making these people's claims of representation as fraudulent as their arguments.


These attacks will not be haphazard nor mild. They will be co-ordinated and appear from thousands of disparate 'origination' points. They will be backed by multi-millions in funding.

I make a pleading to all. Please read The Tentacles of Rage by Lewis Lapham of Harpers. This essay details what any progressive candidate or movement is facing.


Thanks blatham.

I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that McCain is running in what could be described as the most negative environment towards Republicans in the last 30 years. It isn't a level playing field. And he has significant problems within his own base.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:01 pm
Our radio news this evening said Mrs Obama had "mis-spoken" or blundered when she said in an interview recently that this was the first time in her adult life she felt proud of her country.

I expect BO's opponents are spinning that for all they're worth. How significant is that, IYO?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:03 pm
Bernie, Wouldn't you think that the other Jews would balance out, or should balance out, the false negatives against Obama by speaking out?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:03 pm
McTag wrote:
Our radio news this evening said Mrs Obama had "mis-spoken" or blundered when she said in an interview recently that this was the first time in her adult life she felt proud of her country.

I expect BO's opponents are spinning that for all they're worth. How significant is that, IYO?


Desperation comes to mind.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:08 pm
Quote:
I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that McCain is running in what could be described as the most negative environment towards Republicans in the last 30 years. It isn't a level playing field. And he has significant problems within his own base.

Cycloptichorn


I am too. But it was only three years ago Bush won a second term. If you haven't read the Lapham piece, I again plead that you do so.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:12 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
I am somewhat encouraged by the fact that McCain is running in what could be described as the most negative environment towards Republicans in the last 30 years. It isn't a level playing field. And he has significant problems within his own base.

Cycloptichorn


I am too. But it was only three years ago Bush won a second term. If you haven't read the Lapham piece, I again plead that you do so.


Been reading it. It's a little dated. When there is consistent polling data showing a massive repudiation of Republican leadership on all issues, then the right-wing machine is broke!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:15 pm
I find the criticisms coming out of the Hillary camp to be disingenuous. How many of her "promises" does she expect to accomplish once in office? Doesn't her experience tell her that all presidential candidates never completely fulfill their initiatives? Show us the beef.

Clinton: Obama offers words, not actions By BETH FOUHY, Associated Press Writer
Wed Feb 20, 11:03 AM ET



NEW YORK - Hillary Rodham Clinton dismissed her Democratic rival Barack Obama on Wednesday as leading a movement with little to show for his eloquence and promises.


"It's time to get real about how we actually win this election," Clinton declared a fundraising event at Hunter College. "It's time that we move from good words to good works, from sound bites to sound solutions ... This campaign goes on!"

She's the one who needs to get real.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:19 pm
I might also add that Juan McCain is, per his latest filing:

http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4056

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2006/2279389551_b0e3a68336_o.jpg

Is BROKE. 5.5 million in debt, 5.2 million cash on hand.

Now, some of the pro-Republican 527's are not broke. But it's not an encouraging sign for McCain that his fund-raising is in the toilet.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:19 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Bernie, Wouldn't you think that the other Jews would balance out, or should balance out, the false negatives against Obama by speaking out?


First point...recognize that the examples Alterman links are instances or aspects of a propagandist campaign, in this case involving the jewish community. These are political activist persons and groups aligned with the neoconservative crowd and with the Republican Party here (and Likud/Kadima in Israel). Had the Dem candidate been Obama, Clinton, Dodd, Edwards...it wouldn't have mattered much...we'd see the same stuff with a different name attached.

Second point...there are many liberal voices in the jewish community too, and some of them like Alterman and Josh Marshall and Yglesias and others, pay close attention to the rightwing propagandists in their community. And as Alterman notes, these rightwing voices are not representative of the broader jewish community. But they have purposefully established institutions and media outlets in order to magnify their reach.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:24 pm
Quote:
Been reading it. It's a little dated. When there is consistent polling data showing a massive repudiation of Republican leadership on all issues, then the right-wing machine is broke!


That's a very dangerous underestimation of the situation. The left has only barely begun to move in directions that can counter a structure which has been thirty years in development.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:26 pm
blatham wrote:
Quote:
Been reading it. It's a little dated. When there is consistent polling data showing a massive repudiation of Republican leadership on all issues, then the right-wing machine is broke!


That's a very dangerous underestimation of the situation. The left has only barely begun to move in directions that can counter a structure which has been thirty years in development.


I agree that there is a lot of structural and fundamental work yet to be done. But, it's a good environment to be doing it in - Republicanism has failed the country, and it's become rather obvious.

McCain will NOT WIN running as Bush term 3. It's a serious problem for him.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:29 pm
McTag wrote:
Our radio news this evening said Mrs Obama had "mis-spoken" or blundered when she said in an interview recently that this was the first time in her adult life she felt proud of her country.

I expect BO's opponents are spinning that for all they're worth. How significant is that, IYO?


It was danged unfortunate. This bit of video will pretty predictably be a staple in the right's attempts to color Obama as a liberal, america-hater who has no use for the flag, for the pledge of allegiance, for soldiers, etc. It plays directly into the conservative movement propaganda thrust.

We'll see it running from now until the election.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:30 pm
Mmm-hmm.

I've said before that I think Obama is better equipped to stand up to inevitable attacks than Hillary. Not sure what's being argued now -- that there will be attacks? I don't think anyone has really disputed that.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Wed 20 Feb, 2008 01:34 pm
Quote:
I agree that there is a lot of structural and fundamental work yet to be done. But, it's a good environment to be doing it in - Republicanism has failed the country, and it's become rather obvious.

McCain will NOT WIN running as Bush term 3. It's a serious problem for him.


It is a good environment for us, which is why the right is deeply concerned. But they play for keeps. There are many many billions of dollars at stake here (consider changes in regulatory regimes alone). What is about to come at Obama or any dem candidate will not only be broad, deep and serious, it will be effective and influential. They know how to do effective and influential.
0 Replies
 
 

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