joefromchicago
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 01:27 am
blatham wrote:
Hail! Hail! Foreignervania
We sing to your mountains
And your turnip cakes...

... white with foam
From thy marshes to thy swampland,
Be thee ever free from cholera,
Oh Foreignervania, forever damp
And our home for now!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 03:34 am
FreeDuck wrote:
You don't think this has something to do with the fact that there is just more discussion about Obama? You don't think, if there was a Hillary '08 thread, and you and I took our criticisms and concerns there, that people would respond to those and dispute our claims?

No. But that's just because I never think. Not my thing.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 03:37 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

1) It certainly looks like that. If he had read the books, he would have known that Krugman doesn't like partisanship. He just thinks it inevitable.


And works to make it so by perpetuating the meme, with viciousness in this case.

Can you please show me the visciousness? Krugman is blunt and sometimes sarcastic, but I never found him vicious.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 04:55 am
fishin wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Likewise, in a two party system in which one party vehemently opposes universal heathcare in ignorance of clear evidence that it works, introducing any universal healthcare is inevitably a very partisan thing to do.


So does this justify his countinuing use of incorrect and misleading information when he promotes universial healthcare? The opposing party doesn't like the programs I like so it's ok to lie to readers because "it's the partisan thing to do"??

Assuming that you're referring to Krugman's take on the Republicans, my response is: "Trick question!" The premise of your question is false as best I can tell, so I can't answer yes or no to the question itself. The correct premise is that it's the Bush administration who lied about their tax cuts and their rationales, who lied about the case for war in Iraq, and who systematically bullied and humiliated European allies like France and Germany, who didn't buy into the lies. It was Paul Krugman (and a few others) who corrected those lies.

That was an extremely partisan thing of Krugman to do, considering that the ruling party in Congress was too gung-ho about tax cuts and war to criticize the liar in chief. In the case of the war, it was extra partisan because about half the Democratic party -- Hillary Clinton included, but not Barack Obama -- let the Bush administration bully them into going along. But yes, it was the right thing of Krugman to do. I used to have Krugman in my avatar before he became fashionable, and I don't have the slightest regrets that I did.

I am, as always, responsive to evidence. If you wish to demonstrate to me that Paul Krugman is a liar, feel free to start a thread about him and present your case. I can't promise I'll answer promptly, for I'm busy in Germany this week, barking commands at logistics company secretaries and furniture carriers. But I do promise I will answer.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 05:08 am
Lola wrote-

Quote:
Or a good reason to take a much needed day off. It's sweet, but imeans little in terms of presidential qualifications.


If he has taken the day off because it is Valentine's Day it would represent a fairly significant glimpse into his character. Much more than speeches about "change". Change is unavoidable whoever wins.

It would suggest he's a bit of a soppy sentimentalist and under the cosh and maybe would favour a national holiday on Feb 14th dedicated to the WAGS with mandatory candlelit dinners for two. There's a faint aura of quaint religiosity about it don't you think.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 05:21 am
nimh wrote:
Echoing all of that.

Our level of agreement has been astounding recently. You must have come a long way. Razz

And on another note, please give my sincerest compliments to lady A. It's nice to see her reappear on the horizon.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 07:25 am
Thomas wrote:
fishin wrote:
So does this justify his countinuing use of incorrect and misleading information when he promotes universial healthcare? The opposing party doesn't like the programs I like so it's ok to lie to readers because "it's the partisan thing to do"??

Assuming that you're referring to Krugman's take on the Republicans, my response is: "Trick question!"

Sorry Fishin -- I missed that you were specifically talking about universal healthcare. So please kindly forget my suada against the Bush administration. But the headline of my answer remains: I don't think Krugman is lying to this readers, so I can't answer yes or no when you ask me if he is justified in doing it.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 07:45 am
Thomas wrote:
Our level of agreement has been astounding recently. You must have come a long way. Razz

Hey, I'm not the libertarian FDP-voter who was supporting the progressive populist these elections.. Twisted Evil

Thomas wrote:
And on another note, please give my sincerest compliments to lady A. It's nice to see her reappear on the horizon.

Will do! Smile
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 07:56 am
Thomas wrote:
fishin wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Likewise, in a two party system in which one party vehemently opposes universal heathcare in ignorance of clear evidence that it works, introducing any universal healthcare is inevitably a very partisan thing to do.


So does this justify his countinuing use of incorrect and misleading information when he promotes universial healthcare? The opposing party doesn't like the programs I like so it's ok to lie to readers because "it's the partisan thing to do"??

Assuming that you're referring to Krugman's take on the Republicans, my response is: "Trick question!"


How could you possibly come to any assumption that my comment was in reference to his statements about Republicans? I think I made it pretty clear that I was referring to his comments on Universial Healthcare.

Just one of many examples (and he's repeated this one several times in various incarnations):

"Medicare, which is a universal health insurance program for older Americans, spends less than 2 cents of every dollar on administrative costs, leaving 98 cents to pay for medical care."

http://select.nytimes.com/2006/09/22/opinion/22krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

He knows full well that that is a flat out lie. The "less than 2 cents" claim has been debunked hundreds of times and it's been proven that the claim relies on prentending numerous Medicare administrative costs don't exist. It ignores the costs of the entire Medicare Policy staff (they show up under HHS Staff costs even though they only work on Medicare issues), the cost of collecting and managing Medicare taxes (paid for out of the IRS and Social Security budget), and - since the Medicare system outsources much of it's processing to private companies - they include the total contract price paid to those companies as "medical care" even though the sub-contractors are incurring administrative overhead costs as part of their operations.

Your hero here is supposed to be an economist! How does he justify ignoring basic finance data when he develops his positions? Face facts - Krugman has decided in his own mind that Uninversial Healthcare is the way to go and he's more than willing to lie to "prove" his case. Does that make him a fraud or a shill?
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:00 am
Since Illinois keeps having shootings in "gun free zones", now they are trying to ban ammo. Let's further deny the rights of law abiding citizens to protect themselves (not to mention hunt for sustenance).

Remember, Osamabama is from Illinois.

Illinois is mentally retarded.

Seriously, I wouldn't go to Chicago unless I could get ahold of Harry Potter's Cloak of Invisibility. Effing police state.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:19 am
cjhsa wrote:
Seriously, I wouldn't go to Chicago unless I could get ahold of Harry Potter's Cloak of Invisibility.

We would insist upon no less.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:36 am
How can you be so stupid?

Talk about control freaks - that is the goal after all of disarming the citizentry.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:47 am
I have to wonder about some of Obama's supporters.

Do they really support the guy on the flag, or are they just stupid???

http://lonestartimes.com/2008/02/11/obama-office-adores-psychotic-marxist-thug/

I realize the article is slightly biased in the way it was written, but there is no denying the fact that there is a Che Guevara flag hanging in the local office of Obama in Houston.

I wonder what he (Obama) thinks about it.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:53 am
Meet the 17 year old girl who may have given Maryland to Obama...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/20/AR2008012002366.html?hpid=topnews

I gotta give this girl credit, she fought for what was right and may very well have given the state to Obama, based on the amount of the youth vote he got.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 08:58 am
I have to say that stuff is buzzing here in Ohio! Huge meeting last night (I missed it -- too late for me -- but am in touch with organizers), and my inbox is filling up with accounts of stuff happening in Cleveland, Cincinnati, etc...

Meanwhile Hillary is here at OSU today (thinking about going just to ask her a tough question... hmmm, what should it be?)

Generally the organization looks really good. Lots of emails contain comments about how impressed local people are by the response they're getting from the national Obama campaign.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 09:00 am
sozobe wrote:
Meanwhile Hillary is here at OSU today (thinking about going just to ask her a tough question... hmmm, what should it be?)



Just based on some comments I've seen you drop here and there, if I were you, I'd prod her on her "35 years experience" claim. Wink
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 09:02 am
I'd ask her about Bill's wart....
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 09:04 am
Maybe, maybe... but there is the MI/FL issue ("If you were so concerned about allowing these peoples' voices be heard, why did you initially agree not to participate? My cousin in Florida, an Obama supporter who did not vote because she believed it wouldn't count, won't feel "enfranchised" if you persuade the DNC to reverse its decision.") Etc. There's just so much to choose from. ;-)
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 09:09 am
mysteryman
mysteryman wrote:
I have to wonder about some of Obama's supporters.
Do they really support the guy on the flag, or are they just stupid???
http://lonestartimes.com/2008/02/11/obama-office-adores-psychotic-marxist-thug/
I realize the article is slightly biased in the way it was written, but there is no denying the fact that there is a Che Guevara flag hanging in the local office of Obama in Houston.
I wonder what he (Obama) thinks about it.


FOX clarification: The office featured in this video is funded by volunteers of the Barack Obama Campaign and is not an official headquarters for his campaign.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Thu 14 Feb, 2008 09:12 am
Che ees our jero!

http://www.theodoresworld.net/pics/0407/illegal_aliens_FUCK_You.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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