Obama '08?

Who's shying away?

I'm curious about what constitutes "too much."

Most people seem to agree that it hasn't happened yet -- do you concur?

0 Replies

OK- In my mind there is a huge difference between a black candidate, and a candidate who just happens to be black.

0 Replies

Care to expand?

And, which do you think Obama is?

0 Replies

Soz- I started to elaborate, but decided to leave my post at the one sentence. I think that Obama is a candidate who just happens to be black.

What I am referring to is the difference between a candidate who sees the larger picture, and is interested in serving all of the people. He might use his cultural heritage as a framework for some of his remarks, but uses it to help people to understand where he is coming from.

On the other hand, the black candidate is one who sees issues in a far narrower perspective, and is basically concerned with black issues, often to the detriment of more universal issues. The name "Al Sharpton" comes to mind, as a perfect example of this phenomenon.

0 Replies

Thomas wrote:

blatham wrote:
What then, if anything, worries you?

Nothing really.

If I was a Democrat, I would be unconditionally thrilled about Obama. Since I am an independent libertarian, I feel ambivalent about Obama's platform, which basically consists of standard issue Democratic talking points. But I'm happy about Obama personally, and certainly like him much better than any probable Repubican candidate. He'd be a good president.

Then we are on precisely the same page. Of different books, of course, but who gets it all in this life?

0 Replies

Thanks for expanding, Phoenix. And happy (in terms of the electability question) that you classify Obama as a candidate who happens to be black.

0 Replies

sozobe wrote:

Who's shying away?

I'm curious about what constitutes "too much."

Most people seem to agree that it hasn't happened yet -- do you concur?

I'm trying to do a couple of things at once--it's possible the Blatham, soz, Thomas convo was dipping around in the "will that matter"--and (maybe just me) but there seemed to be a bit of pressure to say talk of race wouldn't matter.

I think too much is in the eye of each beholder--some will say it wasn't enough, no matter how much it turns out to be.

I haven't heard enough to say if he seems to be more of a black candidate, or not, to "your average person." Not even sure what this would constitute for me.

0 Replies

Lash wrote:
I think too much is in the eye of each beholder--some will say it wasn't enough, no matter how much it turns out to be.

I found this statement too humerous not to respond; we now have a moron president because "too much 'was' in the eye of each beholder."

0 Replies

People are still allowed to vote based on their opinion. Irritating to some, I'm sure.

0 Replies

Thomas wrote:

If I was a Democrat, I would be unconditionally thrilled about Obama. Since I am an independent libertarian, I feel ambivalent about Obama's platform, which basically consists of standard issue Democratic talking points. But I'm happy about Obama personally, and certainly like him much better than any probable Repubican candidate. He'd be a good president.

That is something that is bothering me too. I made of list of the his various stands on issues from the site that soz had linked. I made two columns, one for his stand, the other for my "take" on the issues.

There are a couple of things that I AM uncomfortable with, but as you say Thomas, I have not seen any Republican candidate who would thrill me.

I will have to wait and see.

0 Replies

Here is an analysis on how Obama voted in Congress:

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/o000167/key-votes/

0 Replies

Lash wrote:

sozobe wrote:
Who's shying away?

I'm curious about what constitutes "too much."

Most people seem to agree that it hasn't happened yet -- do you concur?

I'm trying to do a couple of things at once--it's possible the Blatham, soz, Thomas convo was dipping around in the "will that matter"--and (maybe just me) but there seemed to be a bit of pressure to say talk of race wouldn't matter.

I think too much is in the eye of each beholder--some will say it wasn't enough, no matter how much it turns out to be.

I haven't heard enough to say if he seems to be more of a black candidate, or not, to "your average person." Not even sure what this would constitute for me.

Not sure what you've been pointing at in your last two posts, lash.

To clarify, I have no problem with the racial matter being raised by a candidate or others where he or they are african americans. I think we all understand how positive it will be to finally have a female as President or an african american as President (or even if it is just a truly viable candidacy). Quite outside of partisan preferences, it would have been a leap forward had Powell broken one of these two barriers. Or Condi Rice, or Hillary, etc.

Either barrier broken will be understood as a positive precisely because both women and african americans have been previously disadvantaged as regards achieving positions of power merely on the prejudicial basis of gender or race - a clear injustice and violation of the principles of equality.

But as soon as we acknowledge the above, the door opens to charges that the individual is counting on our sympathies for an inappropriate "leg up". In other words, to the charge that something opposite to justice and equality are being served after all - rather, those values are being thwarted by this "leg up". It is an inescapable dilemma here.

To sort through who is or who is not proceding with integrity can be a bit tough, but not all that tough.

0 Replies

I was acknowledging the conversation that was taking place, and was wondering about how a black candidate, who seems to run as a black candidate--would go over. I think it's interesting.

If you were a Candidate Obama's Campaign Manager--how much association with the black community would you suggest he seek or accept? How much rhetoric about blackness would you allow each speech---each week--each month? Could he share a stage with Jesse Jackson...? How often? Could he talk about reparations?

I think a woman might face the same issue, but honestly to a much less degree.

I don't think a Republican black would face the scrutiny about the same issue as a Dem black.

It's not something I've thought of before. Interesting. The nuances for a campaign manager would be maddening.

Aside--yes. Love to have a barrier broken for the right candidate.

(That would be Dr. Rice, natch Cool

)

0 Replies

Bernie wrote-

Quote:

Either barrier broken will be understood as a positive precisely because both women and african americans have been previously disadvantaged as regards achieving positions of power merely on the prejudicial basis of gender or race - a clear injustice and violation of the principles of equality.

That isn't necessarily true. There are a number of other possible reasons.

0 Replies

spendi wrote:
That isn't necessarily true. There are a number of other possible reasons.

And what might those other possible reasons be?

0 Replies

spendius wrote:

Bernie wrote-

Quote:
Either barrier broken will be understood as a positive precisely because both women and african americans have been previously disadvantaged as regards achieving positions of power merely on the prejudicial basis of gender or race - a clear injustice and violation of the principles of equality.

That isn't necessarily true. There are a number of other possible reasons.

Was he stating that there would be universal agreement on the reason? Surely not.

0 Replies

cicerone imposter wrote:

spendi wrote:
That isn't necessarily true. There are a number of other possible reasons.

And what might those other possible reasons be?

Not that there definitely aren't other reasons, or anything. But I'm interested in what you think they might be, spendius.

0 Replies

Lash wrote:

I was acknowledging the conversation that was taking place, and was wondering about how a black candidate, who seems to run as a black candidate--would go over. I think it's interesting.

If you were a Candidate Obama's Campaign Manager--how much association with the black community would you suggest he seek or accept? How much rhetoric about blackness would you allow each speech---each week--each month? Could he share a stage with Jesse Jackson...? How often? Could he talk about reparations?

I agree it's interesting, and that's an expansion of what I was asking.

In his first race in Chicago he was called "not black enough" by the (black) candidate he was running against. (I forget if it was those exact words or if that's a paraphrase.)

I think that as his campaign manager I'd urge him to keep telling compelling stories, and part of what is compelling about his own story is the American dream aspect. Saying what's good about America, possibilities. I'd also urge him to not take the black vote for granted. But, in Phoenix's phrase, I think it serves him better to run as a candidate who happens to be black than a black candidate.

It's a balance that he's striking well so far, I think. I think it's a balance he's very familiar with.

0 Replies

sozobe, Do you really think "the American Dream" message will have enough of an impact to make a difference?

I'm just wondering, because the middle class and poor are falling behind in buying power, and new graduates are having difficulty finding jobs.

0 Replies

What do you mean... make a difference to whom?

The one-two of his message is that "the American dream is a wonderful thing, " and "but right now things are not going well -- we need to work to make good things happen."

He's not saying that things are peachy-keen, at all.

I think he'd be especially resonant with the people you mention.

0 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know