Obama '08?

sozobe, I see more problems trying to resolve this issue, because there are no easy answers.

No, no easy answers, but lots of possible non-easy answers. I don't think we should just say "eh, it's unsolvable, the world is doomed."

I'm guessing, from the top of my head, that there is one way in which his "blackness" might be taken as less of a threat.

(Because it would be - taken as a threat - by many, let's be honest - even if just already at the subconscious level of where someone goes - "well, thats OK with me, that he's black, as long as he doesnt.. <insert qualification, like, 'talk too much about it' or the like>". You would never hear anyone say, "well, thats OK, that he's white, as long as he doesnt..")

The way he did it earlier, I think, was by emphasising the part of his identity as newcomer, someone with his roots in actual Africa, like - another kid of immigrants trying to make the American Dream come true. An identity that subtly sets him apart from the 'regular' American blacks, the ones that have been there for ages, and are perceived to be represented by Jesse Jackson politics.

Somehow I just get this vibe that the son of an immigrant from Africa will, paradoxically, come over easier than a 'regular' American black. That the stigmas attached to 'regular' blacks are more of a roadblock - you know, the whole **** you hear, too much, of the "they just sit back do nothing for themselves and be demanding special treatment over something that happened centuries ago" kind.

Not fair, but, just how it is?

It makes me kind of sad that there is this thing where a black candidate will only be acceptable to a wider white electorate if - well, he can be black of skin colour - but he shouldnt mention it too much, its just as long as he doesnt make an issue of it, etc. Strikes me as kind of the equivalent of the "Dont ask dont tell" rule for gays. We'll accept you for who you are if, eh, well, you kinda pretend like you're just like us. Dont talk too much about the differences - and definitely not about the troubles and disadvantages you have faced because of your different skin color, etc. We'd rather not be confronted by that, ok?

Sad, but yeah - that is how it is. The first black president will be one who's black but kinda 'hid' it - I mean, you cant hide the skin color but ...ssshhh.. like, "dont mention the war".

Unless, of course, Obama is the man and he gets there by using a different way of telling his story, choosing the "hard-working immigrant family" prototype rather than the "black who fought disadvantage and made it through" one. Both stories are true, of course, but some parts of the truth just lie more easily with people than other parts, I guess.

Yeah, chin up C.I.
It could be worse...
For instance,
-If there was a third term for the incumbent
-If there was no Obama or anyone else to lend a little hope to the scene
-If Alan Keyes had won the Senate seat from Illinois

...and I can think of a few more ways.

"Hard working immigrant family"???

Obama was raised by his white mother and white maternal grandparents. His father left them to return to Kenya when Obama was two.

Personally, I'm bored with the race issue in politics. Most Americans will judge the candidate on the color of their politics and not on the color of their skin.

In my opinion, it's the media that will bring 'race' into the mix.

Trying to find something to compare it to...

If the first female contender (by that, I mean when the pack narrows down to three and she's one of them), talked inordinately about NOW and women's issues, and when she was asked a question on the campaign trail, it always wound back around to the Glass Ceiling...and she always had Eleanor Smeal or Gloria Steinem at her rallies...

That would perk people's bad sensors up. If she acted like a generic candidate, who happened to be a woman, she'd do better with non-women.

I think that's a given. What do you think? It seems more inclusive for everyone else.

And, it looks like Obama might want to stay away from the hard working immigrant thing. His father was incredibly wealthy.

I do think race and sex will be an issue if any of these barrier breakers gets up in the polls--and goes far in the season. It can be won or lost depending on how they use--or don't use it-- I think. People will be watching and listening closely. If they feel disinfranchised by (what they consider) a polarizing figure, they will likely vote accordingly.

No he wasn't.

...maybe that's the "hardworking immigrants he referred to. I read his book, and he actually had hardly any contact at all with his father, and certainly didn't live an opulent lifestyle.

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040531fa_fact1

Well, yes, "inordinately", "always wound back around to", "always had"... inordinately, always.

Any resemblance to Obama talking "always" about it, though? "Inordinately", on the other hand - that, of course, is in the eye of the beholder. As Soz asked earlier, "what is too much?"

Impression I have is that there's still many voters out there who dont mind a black presidential candidate per se, but would feel pretty much any explicitation of what his blackness has meant to him, how it has affected his life (or even, chances), what reactions he's sensed to it - any of that - as "inordinate". Hence my comparison with the 'dont ask dont tell' thing, or in Fawlty Towers-speak, "dont talk about the war".

Some will say that they just want the candidate to be 'colorblind' so to say, to just be a candidate, not a black white or whatever candidate. But in a white-dominated culture, what that comes down to in practice of course is that they dont mind a black candidate as long as he's white about it - as long as they're not confronted too much with, you know, that he's black.

But yes, thats just how it is, I think, so that, of course, is just what a candidate will have to reckon with and work around in his campaign. Not be uncomfortable. Just makes me kinda sad, thats all.

To give CI another thrill, too much is in the eye of the beholder.

I'm saying it will be a tough row to hoe for the first barrier breaker, whoever may aspire to that role.

I don't have any reason to think Obama is in danger of too much. Like any othr minority, though, he'll be pressured to do exactly what we're saying he shouldn't (if we were managing him) do.

Weren't his grandparents US citizens? His mother's parents?

What I was saying before is that pressure or not, I think he's at ease with these issues -- at 44 (?) I think he's been dealing with them for most of his life. (Not just personally, but professionally.) He gives every indication that he'd be able to juggle these various needs (address things directly; don't overdo it; don't take the black vote for granted; etc.) with a great deal of grace.

Yes - mother and grandparents were from Kansas. After reading his speech to the Dem's convention, I think he'd have a lot of explaining to do, and if he were to run, it would definitely all come up.

Fortunately (for him), he'll be spared having to explain some of the possible misrepresentations since he won't be running for president.

The Senate will be it for him.

I've read it. What do you have in mind?

The goat-herder thing has already been discussed here.

Here it is, by the way (complete with the info that his mother and maternal grandparents are from Kansas):

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/convention2004/barackobama2004dnc.htm

10 to 1 Sierra can't come up with a coherent answer about what Obama has "explaining to do"...

any takers?

Will that be donuts or pennies?

Nope. Sierra doesnt do specifics..

Dang! Foiled!

Wow, that's a lot of focus on race... and you folks are the smart ones. Imagine the conversations the ignorant will have? I think it naive to think this won't play a major role... but I think many are underestimating Obama's ability to spin. The man has the "sales man's gift" for turning negatives into positives and I suspect he's good enough to make even this hurdle a wash.

While I have never and would never apologize for slavery, having never participated; that doesn't mean I'm insensitive to the plight of blacks since. Were I 50/50 split over who to vote for; common decency would send me to the black man's corner. I strongly suspect there are at least as many people who'd like to prove they're not racist as there are racists in this country. Obviously, the more educated will likely lean in this direction easier, but I don't think it's a liberal phenomenon at all.

Obama could do a better job of explaining/defending Democratic positions than most... if not every other viable option. I could also see him largely side-step attempts to turn it into a race thing... while his curt, intelligent answers would suffice. In this way, I think the mud-slingers would get themselves as dirty as anyone (much like the swifties and, sorry folks, the rabid ABB). There is a limit to how much mud you can throw, before you are simply dismissed as a mud-thrower. I think Obama is uniquely qualified to walk between the rain (mud) drops in this respect.

Aside about heritage: My Tica friend, Lucy, who lives in San Jose, Costa Rica had an opportunity to become an American citizen. She is black, of African descent, and very dark. Being from Limon, CR, she speaks with a kind of Creole accent. When we went out in the Tico area's of the city, far from the tourists, no one batted an additional eye at the white guy with the black girl, like would happen here. She had spent some time living in Texas and decided she didn't want to live with all the racism in the United States (it seems non-existent in San Jose). Interestingly, it wasn't so much the white people she had a problem with. She reported that as a non-American Black person, she was treated as something of a pariah by the black community, which hurt her even more than being looked on differently by the white community. Second hand anecdotal evidence, I know, but I thought it was interesting enough to mention.

OBill, You are correct; there is no racial discrimination in CR. The rest of your thesis sounds reasonable from my vantage point; I believe Colin Powell would have been a viable choice if it were not for his association with the Bush administration.