sozobe
 
  1  
Thu 7 Feb, 2008 01:26 pm
Yup. We've been talking about it over here:

http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=111504
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Thu 7 Feb, 2008 01:44 pm
tah
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Thu 7 Feb, 2008 02:40 pm
McCain is wasting no time switching gears with Romney's departure. This ad from a popular website doesn't even say anything, really… except: Hillary is just too easy folks.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4060/antihillvf6.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4060/antihillvf6.f2cd7ee0e5.jpg
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 7 Feb, 2008 02:42 pm
Intrade is big on Obama at the moment.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Thu 7 Feb, 2008 02:48 pm
OCCOM BILL wrote:
McCain is wasting no time switching gears with Romney's departure. This ad from a popular website doesn't even say anything, really… except: Hillary is just too easy folks.

http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4060/antihillvf6.jpg
http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/4060/antihillvf6.f2cd7ee0e5.jpg


I've seen that same ad on A2K for almost a week now. It isn't anything that was initiated today after Romney withdrew.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Thu 7 Feb, 2008 04:12 pm
Sorry for my diversion.
As a pathetic observer of this funny Drama in the name of selecting a candidate to ushapr the power i beg to submit this as my views.
Your political system is not perfect nor will it be in the near future.
Money should not play the major role to pick up a candidate who after winning the final election will send those boys and girls in a far off desert to fight against the invisible, unknown enimies.

Change and hope are epithets to enthuse the mobs.

There are always too many Democratic congressmen, too many Republican congressmen, and never enough U.S. congressmen
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Thu 7 Feb, 2008 04:15 pm
Butrflynet wrote:
I've seen that same ad on A2K for almost a week now. It isn't anything that was initiated today after Romney withdrew.
Ah, I hadn't noticed it until just then. Have you noticed any equivalent anti-Obama ad yet?
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Thu 7 Feb, 2008 04:29 pm
The only other political ad on A2K that grabbed my notice is one that has an appearance of a dating match maker website with Obama dreamily glancing downward at a photo of Clinton dreamily glancing upward, and asks people which candidate they prefer.


Any other ads have been pretty bland and not very eye-catching, including Obama's ads.

I've been pretty disappointed in the TV and banner ads from the Obama campaign. They really aren't very good. The amateur things done on YouTube and in handouts have been much more successful and present Obama as more than a guy with a pleasant sounding voice wearing a nice suit.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Thu 7 Feb, 2008 04:33 pm
Quote:


Quote:

Bangor Daily News (Maine)



Barack Obama will hold a "Stand for Change" rally at the Bangor Auditorium on Saturday afternoon, his campaign announced. The doors to the auditorium are set to open at 2:30 p.m.

The event is free and open to the public. Reservations are encouraged to attend the Obama event. To RSVP, visit http://me.barackobama.com/bangor.

… "What happened last night [Super Tuesday] makes Maine very important," [Democratic state party executive director, Arden Manning] said. "I'm sure both campaigns will be working hard for delegates."

… Maine House Speaker Glenn Cummings of Portland, who supports Obama, echoed Manning's sentiments.

"With the delegate vote so close, every delegate counts," Cummings said.


Quote:
Balitmore Sun (Maryland)



With the presidential race shifting to Maryland, Democratic rivals Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama are moving quickly to open offices, schedule rallies and air advertisements . . .

Obama appears to be relying on a network of volunteers - and a growing number of elected officials - that the campaign said has been a year in the making.

… "There's already the energy," said Elizabeth Wilkins, director of Obama's Baltimore field office, which officially opened Tuesday on East Baltimore Street. "There's already the community activity. People were organizing on the grass-roots level, through e-mail and on Facebook."

… "We have a machine, it's a grass-roots machine," said Waskey, whose group began organizing in July. "Until a week ago, Maryland didn't factor into the political calculus for Obama, and yet, with no money, we have had thousands of supporters and are raising a ton of money."

Today, the Maryland network has organized small, scattered efforts into a structured campaign with 4,000 volunteers and seven field offices around the state, including two in Prince George's County. The national campaign has taken Maryland seriously, with ads that have been running for nearly a month in the Baltimore, Eastern Shore and Washington markets, including one aimed at young voters and another featuring Caroline Kennedy comparing the Illinois senator to her father.

…With chants of the Obama mantra, "Yes, we can" and the Spanish equivalent, "Si, se puede," Maryland Democratic politicians held a rally for Obama yesterday at the Banneker-Douglass Museum in Annapolis, emphasizing the state's role in the tight primary race.

"This is the time for Maryland to stand up," bellowed Rep. Elijah E. Cummings



Quote:

Seattle Times (Washington)



The Washington campaigns for Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama ramped up Wednesday as new volunteers signed on at local headquarters and the candidates firmed up plans to visit the state.

… Barack Obama's campaign said its candidate would be in Seattle on Friday morning for a rally at KeyArena.

… Democrats aren't using the state's presidential primary on Feb. 19 to apportion delegates, so this Saturday's caucus is the only chance for voters to help pick the nominee.

… At Obama's campaign, volunteers have stepped up their door-to-door canvassing efforts, even gathering Wednesday at Seattle ferry terminals to hand out information to commuters.

… Terry Shull, who says he's never been involved in politics before this election, began volunteering for the first time Wednesday.

He spent the morning sitting elbow to elbow with about 20 other volunteers, who straddled wooden chairs, munched on M&Ms and Doritos, and called list after list of Obama supporters to remind them where they need to go on Saturday.

"I'm inspired. We have the power to cause change. And we only have three days left," Shull said, his native Southern accent seeping into his speech.



Quote:

Seattle Post-Intelligencer (Washington)



Obama Power gets its fire from folks like Seattle's Peter Masundire.

… For more than a month he's been married to Obama, volunteering 35 hours or more a week as the Illinois senator's presidential bid ratchets up.

Every campaign boasts people who donate prodigious time or sweat. But political observers say one reason Obama, a relative newcomer to the national scene, has come so far, so fast, is his grass-roots strength.

… Obama comes to KeyArena Friday morning as his campaign grows: Offices for Obama have opened in Spokane, Olympia, Vancouver, Everett and Bellingham. His staff is on the ground in Wenatchee and Tri-Cities. Seattle is the site of his state headquarters.

Jeff Giertz, the official spokesman for the Obama campaign in Washington, just arrived from D.C. on Saturday. But surveying the Seattle political landscape, he had nothing but praise for the intensity of the grass-roots efforts.

Volunteers have given the campaign a crucial boost, organizing rallies, passing out literature, working phones and raising money at backyard barbecues. The paid Obama staffers will join these folks for the final push.


Quote:

Capital Times (Wisconsin)



Wisconsin voters will have plenty of chances to see and hear Democratic presidential candidate U.S. Sen. Barack Obama in person before the Feb. 19 primary, Gov. Jim Doyle said Wednesday.

During a teleconference with reporters this afternoon, Doyle also said the Illinois senator's campaign has already bought TV and radio ad time in Wisconsin, so "voters are going to hear a good deal from Senator Obama."

… After two dozen primaries and party caucuses nationwide on Tuesday, Obama remained in a close race for the Democratic nomination with Clinton.

… Doyle predicted that Wisconsin will be a crucial test for both candidates because, unlike other states, the presidential primary is open to voters of all party affiliations -- Republicans, Democrats, independents, and others -- without requiring them to declare their party allegiance in advance.


Encouraging to hear that he's been on the ground for so long in WA and NE and MD.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 12:20 am
nimh wrote:
Lola wrote:
And here we are, at the height of our lives finally at a point where we're in a position to accomplish some of our greatest goals. If you think we're going to sit down and let that opportunity be taken from us by our own children before their time, you are mistaken.

Well, well. If you haven't, unintentionally, unveiled the core emotion and logic, right here, that runs behind Hillary's anger about this young black man daring to challenge her, when it's finally her turn to get what is rightfully hers. I say you've neatly revealed the whole resentful core of this visceral motivation driving the Hillary camp, both candidate and many supporters.

And it sure dont look pretty Shocked


It's nothing I haven't said before. And it was quite intentional. I was attempting to shed some light on what is motivating me and what I've read that many of Hillary's supporters have expressed as well. And there's nothing unpretty about it. It's honest and in my opinion justified and I think it probably goes both ways. Please notice, however, that I didn't say anything about a young black man. I said, "one of my own children" meaning "of a younger generation." And I was speaking specifically of one man in particular, Obama and those who encouraged him to jump into an already very complicated race. You added the "black," why I don't know.

I have been assuming that, while we've been disagreeing in a regrettable tone, that I was among friends. I know I've been rude and I'm hoping that your ridiculing response was provoked by me and that you aren't actually as mean as you sound. So I've decided that I should apologize for losing it. I'm going to try to join into the discussion in a respectful way. I hope everyone else will do the same.

It's unfortunate, in my opinion, that the conflict of choosing between a female and an African American candidate has been placed on our shoulders. For many of us, both have been a priority for most of our lives. I'm not happy about how it came about. I think it could have been avoided had there been serious thought and discussion about possible unintended consequences. I think it was bad judgement and it's hard for me to forgive. It's too bad we couldn't have helped each other have it all. To me it seems evident that one race with two candidates, each from different long mistreated minority groups would evoke powerful and long suppressed emotions that would erupt into war among allies.

But what's done is done and we're left with what to do now.

I'm worried about a huge problem that is emerging for all Democrats. I think if we don't get reasonable about it and approach it as a problem to be solved rather than a battle to be won, we'll end up just like the Republicans, in a self destructive mess.

We're at an impasse. It's a tie anyway you add it up. There's a real possibility that voting in all the remaining primarys will result in the same tie. We can continue to argue about it but none of us really knows how it will come out. And the arguments are only going to make things worse.

If the voting resolves it, then we have less of a problem. But no matter what, there will remain a rift that will not easily be mended. And in addition to that, there's a possibility that it will not resolve and we're going to be left with a Gove v. Bush situation within our own party.

We need to begin thinking about a method that we can agree on that will settle it if it doesn't resolve itself within the next several weeks. No matter what happens, at least half of us will be left feeling cheated and angry. So I think that we should just accept that fact and proceed to solve the problem as agreeably as we can. The discussion has already started within the party. I hope we'll all find a way to participate.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 12:23 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Lola has given as much as she's gotten. By her own admission; she personifies the female baby boomer Cyclo has been talking about for weeks and has the audacity to suggest the black candidate should wait in line behind the female... as if the person Barack Obama doesn't have every right to campaign for the office regardless of his age, sex or color. Absurdly self centered logic if you ask me.

Hillary was indeed the presumptive choice… but many (if not most) of us presumed a Democratic loss if the Party was somehow stupid enough to be convinced to back her... easily the single dumbest idea since nominating John Kerry… who was quite probably in the minority group of people who couldn't defeat George Bush.

I find the whole "we have money now and it's our turn" meme to be terribly offensive coming from the generation that, more than any other has spent their children and grand children's money to accumulate their personal fortunes in the first place. But NO Baby Boomer wants to talk about that. (What's Ross Perot doing these days anyway?)


I didn't say "black," you did. See my response to nimh above.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 12:30 am
I, personally, don't find the choice between a woman and a African-American to present any problems. I find it as an opportunity for many to choose from a broad field of candidates - whether democrat or republican. i'M HOLDING ON MY CHOICE UNTIL IT GETS CLOSER TO ELECTION DAY. sorry for the caps: I'm typing on a mini laptop.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 12:37 am
joefromchicago wrote:
Lola wrote:
What did Obama think, it would be easy? He could enter the race in which Hillary was already positioned to become the long awaited first female president and he'd win without a big battle? Did he think he could run and not violently divide the party?

Damned uppity negro!


I'm surprised and dissapointed in your responsse, Joe. Obviously, I didn't mention "black" or "uppity negro." Why are you adding that?

My point was as I explained above in my post to nimh. What is so difficult about seeing that I'm not complaining about him as a black man entering the race. I'm saying that I think it was very poor judgement to expect that it wouldn't cause an explosive war. Both blacks and women have a legitmate claim to having been mistreated by aggressive discrimination. I'm not saying that one is more important than the other. I'm saying that it was poor judgement for Obama and those who encouraged him to jump in because Hillary was already in and it was too volitale and destructive to take the action that he did. If they were concerned about the party, and I assume they are, they should have seen it coming. A discussion should have taken place about whether it would be more destructive to enter now or to wait. His entering the race when he did has caused more trouble to all of us, including him than it was worth, in my opinion.

The destruction has already taken place. I think it's too late to do anything about that other than to accept that fact and try to decide some rational way to proceed.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 12:42 am
Lola wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Lola has given as much as she's gotten. By her own admission; she personifies the female baby boomer Cyclo has been talking about for weeks and has the audacity to suggest the black candidate should wait in line behind the female... as if the person Barack Obama doesn't have every right to campaign for the office regardless of his age, sex or color. Absurdly self centered logic if you ask me.

Hillary was indeed the presumptive choice… but many (if not most) of us presumed a Democratic loss if the Party was somehow stupid enough to be convinced to back her... easily the single dumbest idea since nominating John Kerry… who was quite probably in the minority group of people who couldn't defeat George Bush.

I find the whole "we have money now and it's our turn" meme to be terribly offensive coming from the generation that, more than any other has spent their children and grand children's money to accumulate their personal fortunes in the first place. But NO Baby Boomer wants to talk about that. (What's Ross Perot doing these days anyway?)


I didn't say "black," you did. See my response to nimh above.
Eh, yes you did... but I wasn't attaching any racist sentiment to you anyway. I was pointing out how patently unfair it was for you to assume one minority should take a back seat to another for some inexplicable reason. Perhaps not inexplicable... but so far not explained.

You now state that:
Quote:
It's unfortunate, in my opinion, that the conflict of choosing between a female and an African American candidate has been placed on our shoulders. For many of us, both have been a priority for most of our lives. I'm not happy about how it came about. I think it could have been avoided had there been serious thought and discussion about possible unintended consequences. I think it was bad judgement and it's hard for me to forgive. It's too bad we couldn't have helped each other have it all. To me it seems evident that one race with two candidates, each from different long mistreated minority groups would evoke powerful and long suppressed emotions that would erupt into war among allies.
What bad judgment? What is going to be hard for you to forgive? How have you been wronged? What do you see that's wrong?



Ps. Only the Obama backers really could have reason to feel cheated, because only the Clinton campaign (at least so far) has attempted to cheat. Losing isn't the same as being cheated.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 12:42 am
FreeDuck wrote:
What, did he think he could "jump the line" that Hillary's been waiting in for the last 8 years? Quite frankly, bullshit. Nobody is entitled to the nomination.


Again, this is not what I said at all. Do you see how you've missed my point? Let's try to be clear. Obviously we're on very sensitive ground and we should all try to be as clear as possible about what we're responding to. Please, each of us, read carefully what each of us has written, clarify before launching into a reactive attack. We've been on the same side for a long time now. Surely that's worth enough to merit some care about how we go about communicating.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 12:49 am
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Lola wrote:
OCCOM BILL wrote:
Lola has given as much as she's gotten. By her own admission; she personifies the female baby boomer Cyclo has been talking about for weeks and has the audacity to suggest the black candidate should wait in line behind the female... as if the person Barack Obama doesn't have every right to campaign for the office regardless of his age, sex or color. Absurdly self centered logic if you ask me.

Hillary was indeed the presumptive choice… but many (if not most) of us presumed a Democratic loss if the Party was somehow stupid enough to be convinced to back her... easily the single dumbest idea since nominating John Kerry… who was quite probably in the minority group of people who couldn't defeat George Bush.

I find the whole "we have money now and it's our turn" meme to be terribly offensive coming from the generation that, more than any other has spent their children and grand children's money to accumulate their personal fortunes in the first place. But NO Baby Boomer wants to talk about that. (What's Ross Perot doing these days anyway?)


I didn't say "black," you did. See my response to nimh above.
Eh, yes you did... but I wasn't attaching any racist sentiment to you anyway. I was pointing out how patently unfair it was for you to assume one minority should take a back seat to another for some inexplicable reason. Perhaps not inexplicable... but so far not explained.

You now state that:
Quote:
It's unfortunate, in my opinion, that the conflict of choosing between a female and an African American candidate has been placed on our shoulders. For many of us, both have been a priority for most of our lives. I'm not happy about how it came about. I think it could have been avoided had there been serious thought and discussion about possible unintended consequences. I think it was bad judgement and it's hard for me to forgive. It's too bad we couldn't have helped each other have it all. To me it seems evident that one race with two candidates, each from different long mistreated minority groups would evoke powerful and long suppressed emotions that would erupt into war among allies.
What bad judgment? What is going to be hard for you to forgive? How have you been wronged? What do you see that's wrong?



Ps. Only the Obama backers really could have reason to feel cheated, because only the Clinton campaign (at least so far) has attempted to cheat. Losing isn't the same as being cheated.


I think it was careless bad judgement to not anticipate a war between two very deserving minority groups if we we're placed in a situation in which we have to make a choice. It's like Sophie's choice. I don't appreciate being expected to choose. And further, I think it's too much to ask of any of us. It's too prone to misunderstanding and projection on all our parts. I think Obama and his supporters should have seen it coming. It was unavoidable. It's like throwing fire on a hay stack.

You may not agree with me, and I don't expect you to, if you don't. But surely you can understand what I'm saying.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 12:52 am
Quote:
Ps. Only the Obama backers really could have reason to feel cheated, because only the Clinton campaign (at least so far) has attempted to cheat. Losing isn't the same as being cheated.


You realize that this is a subjective view containing several undocumentable assumptions and is an example of what I think they should have seen coming. I've seen examples of both sides "cheating." It's called politics.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 01:03 am
Cheating and politics are universal common knowledge topics. Some people, even many Americans, expect, encourage, and allow it for their candidate to win.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 01:06 am
Bill,

I didn't think I wrote "black" and certainly not "uppity negro." But if the word black was included in my statement, please point it out to me.

But if I did, it would simply be another example of how difficult it is for any of us to manage an unavoidably unmanageable situation. Go back and read most any page on this thread. Everyone is assuming evil intent. We're all accusing each other of whatever injustice we perceive, whether it's there or not.

My point has nothing to do with anyone's right to run for president, no matter what gender, age or race. It has to do with a judgement about what destruction would result if Democratic voters were put into a situation in which they had to make such a conflictual choice.

It's anyone's right to light a fire, but if they do so, they should be sure it's containable before striking the match. Read the history books, or look back on where we've so recently been in this culture......what did they expect? No matter who wins this nominating process, we're all the losers.
0 Replies
 
OCCOM BILL
 
  1  
Fri 8 Feb, 2008 01:06 am
Lola wrote:
I think it was careless bad judgement to not anticipate a war between two very deserving minority groups if we we're placed in a situation in which we have to make a choice. It's like Sophie's choice. I don't appreciate being expected to choose. And further, I think it's too much to ask of any of us. It's too prone to misunderstanding and projection on all our parts. I think Obama and his supporters should have seen it coming. It was unavoidable. It's like throwing fire on a hay stack.

You may not agree with me, and I don't expect you to, if you don't. But surely you can understand what I'm saying.
Believe me, I am trying to understand what you're saying. Let me try a summary and you tell me what I've got wrong (if anything): You think Obama, by way of being black, creates a choice between deserving minorities and therefore should have stepped out of the way to make it easier for Hillary Clinton. You are actually angry at him for seizing what may very well be his best or even only, opportunity to win the Presidency fair and square. Further; you are apparently angry at grass roots folks who pushed him along (Like Sozobe and Butrflynet for instance), because they should have recognized his candidacy would interfere with Hillary's? And lastly; you think Obama people are mad at Hillary and/or her supporters for similar reasons? Shocked


Lola, for real, I think that's just crazy. Or would you like to articulate your anger in some other way that doesn't lead Joe, Nimh, Freeduck, etc. and I all to the same conclusion about what you're saying.
0 Replies
 
 

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