JPB
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:16 am
sozobe wrote:
I expect Iowa to really impact those numbers though. Again and again, I've seen black people say that they'd love to vote for Obama but just don't think he can win. He can win.


Talking heads this morning are saying that if Obama goes into Super Tuesday with 2 or 3 wins under his belt then the southern vote will most likely swing over to him.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:18 am
Isn't it though!

One of the CNN talking heads was saying that Obama's real advantage is that he's inspiring, and it's hard to compete with that.

I sure hope the snowball has started. Such a twisty race already, though, and could still go in so many directions.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:19 am
Er, "talking heads" echo notwithstanding, "Isn't it though!" was in response to FreeDuck's "This is so exciting!" I disagree with cjhsa, too.
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:19 am
McCain especially, if he emerges, would easily beat Obama.

I think this scenario will look more likely in the near future although I hope Edwards somehow gets the nomination.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:21 am
Brand X wrote:
McCain especially, if he emerges, would easily beat Obama.


Only in your dreams doll.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:21 am
I'd love to see McCain - Obama. I think it'd be a good race.

Obama - Huckabee would be an easier win for Obama I think.

Oh and I very much agree with your take on Huckabee, Brand X.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:22 am
Free Duck

I share your affinity for Huckabee. That's a personal response arising from appreciation of both his sense of humor and what I consider to be a fundamentally honest and charitable nature.

Yet I don't think he's up to the job and that arises from a bunch of the stuff noted by others above.

To me, the great blessing of his win and future prospects relates to a serious realignment within the modern conservative movement, a realignment which will (unless the republicans en masse are really as stupid and ideological as the Coulter, Limbaugh crowd). If they are that stupid, they'll really get crushed. But such a crushing seems surely to mean that the party will be forced, slowly or more quickly, back towards a less extremist set of policy positions and values.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:22 am
Another thing on momentum into NH. The gap between Iowa and NH is down to five days -- not much time to change a message. Historically the winner in Iowa hasn't fared all that well in NH, but historically there was a longer gap. I think (hope/pray) that Hillary's in trouble in NH.

Also, McCain was looking for the crossover vote in NH to life him over Romney. He now has to worry that the crossover vote will go into the Dem primary to support Obama instead of the Republican primary.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:25 am
sozobe wrote:
nimh wrote:
Perhaps surprisingly, Hillary doesnt look badly positioned at all in the southern states.. better than Obama, actually (perhaps because of race?).

I expect Iowa to really impact those numbers though. Again and again, I've seen black people say that they'd love to vote for Obama but just don't think he can win. He can win.


That's true for the primaries - black people hesitating to choose for Obama over Hillary because they are afraid he's not electable because he's black. But that's not what I'm talking about, that's not what the link refers to.

The link is about how Hillary and Obama match up against the Republicans in hypothetical general election match-ups. When respondents are asked to choose between Hillary and [name of Republican], or between Obama and [name of Republican], there's no doubt that Southern black respondents massively opt for the Democrat in either case; that's not where the difference is. So if Hillary has been doing clearly better than Obama in these match-ups in the South, it's because of a chunk of white voters being ready for Hillary but not for Obama.

The old racism I suppose. Hopefully it can be overcome, but those numbers just suggest that Obama would have a higher mountain to climb there than Hillary. Harold Ford's experience in TN wasnt exactly encouraging, though Ford was no Obama of course. Then again, the lack of data (especially on Obama) should allow for some ambiguity still too.

Alternatively, one could just say, forget the South, and with Obama as nominee focus on getting all of the Midwest and make inroads in the Western mountain states. The Midwest should be no problem, the West, who knows?
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:25 am
FreeDuck wrote:
but I think there is a big difference between Iowa and Alabama, if you know what I mean.


Actually, there isn't much difference at all.
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:26 am
blatham wrote:

I share your affinity for Huckabee. That's a personal response arising from appreciation of both his sense of humor and what I consider to be a fundamentally honest and charitable nature.


I think it is most definitely a personal response for me, for the same reasons you mention. If he got the nod, I'd have to look more closely, but he is very likable IMO.

Quote:
To me, the great blessing of his win and future prospects relates to a serious realignment within the modern conservative movement, a realignment which will (unless the republicans en masse are really as stupid and ideological as the Coulter, Limbaugh crowd). If they are that stupid, they'll really get crushed. But such a crushing seems surely to mean that the party will be forced, slowly or more quickly, back towards a less extremist set of policy positions and values.


Completely agree.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:26 am
Hillary's been changing her message every day or so, 5 days is plenty for her!

I'm kidding, but I do think that her kitchen sink approach to messages hurt her in that last stretch.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:26 am
Brand X wrote:
McCain especially, if he emerges, would easily beat Obama.

I think this scenario will look more likely in the near future although I hope Edwards somehow gets the nomination.


I think not, though he's the best bet left standing...
Quote:
As the voting begins in earnest, what are we to make of the Republican candidates? That the "conservative base" is dissatisfied with the GOP field is probably the single most common observation of this presidential campaign season. The second most common observation is probably that the Republican candidate, whoever it turns out to be, is doomed to defeat. National Review ran a recent cover story positing not only that the GOP is likely to lose the presidency in 2008, but that the loss may mark the beginning of a long period of wandering in the wilderness as the party gropes to redefine itself after George W. Bush's calamitous tenure. Ramesh Ponnuru and Richard Lowry write:

Conservatives tend to blame their travails on Republican politicians' missteps and especially on their inability to communicate. But the public's unhappiness with Republicans goes much deeper than any such explanation. A mishandled war, coupled with intellectual exhaustion on the domestic front, has soured the public on them. It is not just the politicians but conservative voters themselves who are out of touch with the public, stuck in the glory days of the 1980s and not thinking nearly enough about how to make their principles relevant to the concerns of today. Unforeseen events could yet change the political environment radically. As it stands, Republicans are sleep-walking into catastrophe.[1]
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20937
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:26 am
My gut instinct is that McCain will still get the crossovers.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:28 am
JPB wrote:
There's an excitement about this year's election that I haven't seen in many, many years. MSNBC was saying that this is the first true non-imbumbancy election in 80 years. I'm not sure how they are defining that, but maybe that's the source of the excitement.

Yeah, it's sure a LOT more fun and interesting than '00 and '04 were! Smile
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:29 am
Well, then you weren't responding to FreeDuck's quote, here:

nimh wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
Clearly I'm no political analyst, but I see your dream as a distinct possibility. The southern states are yet to come.

Perhaps surprisingly, Hillary doesnt look badly positioned at all in the southern states.. better than Obama, actually (perhaps because of race?). It's more likely in the Midwest and Northwest that Obama has all the advantage. I dont know that either offers Edwards the chance to squeeze in between after all - tho I sure appreciate the hopeful note! Smile


She can correct me if I'm wrong, but by "the southern states are yet to come" I think she meant in the primaries. Who would get the Democratic nomination.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:30 am
Yeah, Obama vs McCain would be a big decision for me. I think O'Bill has mentioned similar thoughts. A couple years ago I would have leaned towards McCain, today I'm leaning Obama, by November ???
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:31 am
JPB wrote:
MSNBC was saying that this is the first true non-imbumbancy election in 80 years. I'm not sure how they are defining that, but maybe that's the source of the excitement.

I heard this line on MSNBC too. What they mean is that this is the first presidential election in 80 years where no party has a sitting president or a sitting vice president running.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:32 am
sozobe wrote:
I just had to bound back and turn on the TV to see if Obama had given his speech yet. Huckabee was giving his (in front of scary Chuck Norris and scary, overly-emotive blonde)

Hey Soz, did you read this article Au posted about Huckabee the other day? :wink:

I guess the whole trailer park part of Huckabee is actually what I like about him..
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Fri 4 Jan, 2008 08:34 am
Yeah, it was a good article!

I do like the guy, I just don't want him to be president!

As long as he loses though I'd be happy to have him be the Republican nominee -- certainly entertaining. :-)
0 Replies
 
 

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