roger
 
  3  
Sat 6 Oct, 2012 04:15 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:

The military does not pay taxes nor do the elderly and the disabled.


You might want to examine those three statements for accuracy.
revelette
 
  0  
Sat 6 Oct, 2012 04:31 pm
@roger,
I meant income taxes and maybe some disabled pay income taxes but it doubtsful if they receive SSI because you can only make a certain amount and recieve SSI benefits or in some cases the income may be taxable (usually they just take it away.)

source
. Some elderly may pay income taxes but I was speaking of those down below who more than likey recieve SS.

http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/full-width/images/2012/09/blogs/graphic-detail/20120922_woc116_0_0.png

I just assumed the military don't pay. Turns out some do in some states and don't in others.

source



revelette
 
  0  
Sat 6 Oct, 2012 04:47 pm
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxtopics/images/Breakdown3-06-17-11.gif

Quote:
— 53.6 percent of households pay the federal income tax. Presumably Romney is okay with these folks.

— 28.3 percent of households pay no federal income tax, but they do pay the payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare. That means they don’t need Mitt Romney to convince them to “take personal responsibility and care for their lives.” They already have jobs.

Most of the households in this group don’t pay any federal income tax because they qualify for enough deductions that their income tax liability has shrunk to zero. See this Tax Policy Center report for more, which gives an example of “a couple with two children earning less than $26,400. They get an $11,600 standard deduction and four exemptions of $3,700, and that takes their liability to zero.” Indeed, it’s worth noting that many of these deductions and credits were part of the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts, which Romney wants to extend.

— 10.3 percent of households pay no federal income tax because they’re retired and elderly. Many retirees aren’t taxed on their Social Security benefits, which they earned by paying into the system over many years. If Mitt Romney secretly thinks that these households are all irresponsible freeloaders, he has a weird way of showing it, as he keeps insisting that he doesn’t want to cut Medicare or Social Security benefits for those over the age of 65.

— That leaves 6.9 percent of households which are non-elderly and have incomes less than $20,000 per year and aren’t paying the payroll tax. These poorer households pay neither income taxes nor payroll taxes. Perhaps Romney thinks that they should all pay more in federal taxes. It’s hard to say. But this is also a much smaller fraction of Americans.

Meanwhile, just as a reminder, the vast majority of Americans still pay state and local taxes — in fact, these taxes tend to be more regressive. When you add up all the different types of taxes, most income groups in the United States tend to pay an amount that’s roughly commensurate with their share of the national income.


source
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 6 Oct, 2012 05:07 pm
@revelette,
What luxuries. The skint not having to pay income tax. You should count your blessings instead of whining all the time.

I'm on the point of weeping. I laugh to stave it off.

0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  0  
Sat 6 Oct, 2012 08:27 pm
@spendius,
His "craftiness" got him a big kick in the pants when people realized he told lie after lie. Like Lincoln said " you can fool some of the people-----".
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Sat 6 Oct, 2012 09:09 pm
@revelette,
revelette wrote:


I just assumed the military don't pay. Turns out some do in some states and don't in others.


And I just assumed you were speaking of federal income tax. Still do, since your chart is titled "Federal income tax in the United States". Military pay federal is taxed regardless of what state they are in. Really, it is. Disability payments may not be taxed, but income earned by the disabled darn sure is. As for the elderly not being taxed, meet Warren Buffet.

I think you are in danger of thinking that what you believe to be fair is also true.
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Sat 6 Oct, 2012 09:24 pm
@roger,
My understanding is that "combat pay" - the supplement given for serving in a designated war zone - is exempt from federal income tax.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sat 6 Oct, 2012 09:38 pm
@realjohnboy,
Military pay is subject to federal and some state income taxes, but in most cases, combat pay is tax free.
roger
 
  2  
Sat 6 Oct, 2012 09:59 pm
@realjohnboy,
You are entirely correct, as is C.I. Note that I said ~'regardless of what state they are in'. If she is now focusing on states, I'm sure some states do not tax military pay. Of course, some states also have no state income tax at all.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  2  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 11:38 am
@cicerone imposter,
That's what I said a while ago, but I was told I was wrong. Why is it correct when you say it?
DrewDad
 
  1  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 12:06 pm

Kinda nails it for me.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 12:10 pm
@roger,
I didn't state my positions well yesterday, a bit distracted while I was trying to answer your posts, should have waited.

In any event, I am aware some of the elderly pay federal taxes, but 10. 3% do not.


Should have left the whole military issue alone, I am basically ignorant on it.

I am also fully aware that if people on SSI earn income other than their SSI benefits, it will taxed or some or all of their benefits taken away but if they are unable to work and have not any other income sources (spouse or others) or if their spouse or whoever lives with them income does not go over the limit then they do not pay taxes but the spouse or whoever lives with them such as parents still pay taxes on whatever income they earn.

Pass?

My point has been that out of the 47%, 28% pay payroll taxes, the rest is elderly (who qualify) and people who do not earn enough to pay either federal or payroll and others. Someone could be working their tails off, but still not earn enough to pay into the system. Does not mean they are no good dead beats without a care for their lives and vote democrat. In fact, according to most studies, the states with the most people on welfare are red states.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 12:38 pm
@revelette,
You wrote,
Quote:
Does not mean they are no good dead beats without a care for their lives and vote democrat. In fact, according to most studies, the states with the most people on welfare are red states.


They're not only red states, but most welfare recipients are white folks - which the GOP fails to mention. Many assume most welfare recipients are minorities.

That's a FACT.
Do the math.

The irony of ironies, whites don't want other whites to receive welfare - they're a bunch of lazy deadbeats.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 12:47 pm
@mysteryman,
Do you really have to ask?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 12:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Well, since whites greatly outnumber individual minorities (which is kind of why they are known as "minorities") one would expect they would represent the largest share of any sizable group. It's when a minority represents the largest share, that it's worth looking into.

I'm afraid you'll have to explain why you think it is ironic that whites don't want whites getting welfare?

Is it a given in your mind that a race should or would want it's members on welfare?

cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 01:01 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Read and weep; you ignoramus!

Quote:


From US Census: U.S. 314,533,339

White Americans are the majority in forty-nine of the fifty states, with Hawaii as the exception. The District of Columbia, which is not a state, also has a non-white majority.[13] Non-Hispanic Whites, however, are the majority in forty-six states, with Hawaii, New Mexico, California, and Texas, as well as the District of Columbia, as the exceptions.[14] These five have "minority majorities", i.e. minority groups are the majority populations.
The non-Hispanic White percentage (66% in 2008[5])

About 12.4% of the American people (37.6 million, including about 885,000 Hispanic or Latino) are Black or African American

314533339 x 66% = 207592000 = whites
314533339 x 12.4% = 39002000 = blacks


From: http://kathmanduk2.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/black-history-month-welfare-in-black-and-white/
Program                   Recipients      Black      White
Social Security (1)
Retirement insurance     26 Million       7.7%      90.4%
Disability insurance    3.7 Million      18.3%      79.3%
Survivor’s benefits     1.8 Million        24%        72%
Widow’s benefits        4.9 Million         9%      90.1%
Supplemental
Security Income       5.8 Million        26%      48.2%
Aid to Families with Dependent Children (2)
3.8 Million      39.2%      55.2%
Medicare                   37 Million       8.1%        88% (3)
Medicaid                 33.4 Million      25.1%      46.1% (4)
Food Stamps              27.5 Million      34.9%      42.3% (5)
Women, Infants and Children (WIC) Food Program (6)
5.8 Million      27.8%      44.3%
National Student Lunch Program (7)
44.5 Million        17%         75%
Veterans’ Benefits         26 Million       8.0%       86.4% 8
Housing Subsidies         4.7 Million        40%         46% (9)
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 01:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Like I said, you would expect whites to be the majority race in any large group of Americans, so thanks for proving it.

Still don't see the irony of which you wrote though.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 01:37 pm
@revelette,
Pass. I now understand what you meant.

Trust me, though. I didn't intend the whole thing to be a cheap shot. Sometimes, no one objects to the general statement, and it passes into the region of established fact.

spendius
 
  1  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 01:39 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I do. What is being done about the Taxpayer's Protection Plan?

Is Mr Romney promoting "starving the Beast"?

What's the Fiscal Illusion? (As if I don't know as a well known sympathiser with female emancipation.)

Quote:
Economist Paul Krugman summarized as: "Rather than proposing unpopular spending cuts, Republicans would push through popular tax cuts, with the deliberate intention of worsening the government’s fiscal position. Spending cuts could then be sold as a necessity rather than a choice, the only way to eliminate an unsustainable budget deficit." He wrote that the "...beast is starving, as planned..." and that "Republicans insist that the deficit must be eliminated, but they’re not willing either to raise taxes or to support cuts in any major government programs. And they’re not willing to participate in serious bipartisan discussions, either, because that might force them to explain their plan—and there isn’t any plan, except to regain power."

Historian Bruce Bartlett, former domestic policy adviser to President Ronald Reagan, has called "Starve the Beast "the most pernicious fiscal doctrine in history", and blames it for the increase in US government debt since the 1980s.


It was very odd I thought that Mr Reagan's "starving the Beast" speech gave a difficult kid as the example rather than a fashionable lady running amok through the frock shops and travel agents and borrowing in somebody else's name. What kid could borrow much? Eh? Did his nerve fail him?
spendius
 
  0  
Sun 7 Oct, 2012 01:43 pm
@spendius,
Kids not having votes I suppose and thus it didn't matter if they sulked.
0 Replies
 
 

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