izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 27 Aug, 2012 01:05 pm
@ehBeth,
The only plan Obama had was voiced by Donald Rumsfeld, '**** Happens.'
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Mon 27 Aug, 2012 01:21 pm
@ehBeth,
Yep.
snood
 
  1  
Mon 27 Aug, 2012 01:51 pm
C.I:

Quote:
The only "credit" GW Bush deserves is lying to start the war in Iraq.


Once again, well put.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  -1  
Mon 27 Aug, 2012 03:38 pm
@ehBeth,
The Status of Forces agreement agreed to and ratified by the Govt of Iraq and president Bush in 2008...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.–Iraq_Status_of_Forces_Agreement#October_2011_decision_to_withdraw_all_American_forces

So to give Obama the credit for a plan drawn up, negotiated, and ratified under the Bush admin is not only wrong, its an outright lie.
If I remember correctly, Obama actually wanted to keep US forces in Iraq longer, but the Iraqi govt said no.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Mon 27 Aug, 2012 04:27 pm
@mysteryman,
mm, Who gave Obama credit? You? Please cut and paste from anybody's post to show they gave Obama credit?

Most said the Iraqi's demanded the removal of our troops, and Bush complied.

So, who's giving Obama credit for the withdrawal? Obama just followed the agreement made between the Iraqis and Bush; it was the right thing to do - under the circumstances.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  2  
Mon 27 Aug, 2012 05:13 pm
@mysteryman,
No, he wanted to keep a residual of forces there only in a supporting capacity. The Iraqis wanted that too but they didn't want to give immunity to any Americans there who commit crimes and I can't blame them. That is when withdrawal deal went bust. As for the first part your sentence, CI already answered it very well.

Quote:
The Obama administration, concerned over continued violence and growing Iranian influence, for much of this year pushed to keep thousands of U.S. troops here in a significant-sized training mission. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and other Iraqi officials expressed support of the idea, and they negotiated for months.

It was politically delicate for both Obama and al-Maliki, who each faced widespread opposition from their respective publics to continue a war that was never popular in either nation.

But talks ran aground over Iraqi opposition to giving American troops legal immunity that would shield them from Iraqi prosecution. Legal protection for U.S. troops has always angered everyday Iraqis who saw it as simply a way for the Americans to run roughshod over the country. Many Iraqi lawmakers were hesitant to grant immunity for fear of a backlash from constituents.

"When the Americans asked for immunity, the Iraqi side answered that it was not possible," al-Maliki told a news conference Saturday. "The discussions over the number of trainers and the place of training stopped. Now that the issue of immunity was decided and that no immunity to be given, the withdrawal has started."

When Obama announced Friday that all American forces would leave Iraq by the end of the year, he did not mention the immunity issue, portraying the decision as the fulfillment of one of his main campaign promises to end the conflict.

source



0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 28 Aug, 2012 06:29 am
@mysteryman,
I don't think Mr. Obama gets any credit for withdrawing from Iraq, or planning to. Neither does Mr. Bush. Both failed the situation.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 28 Aug, 2012 06:31 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
So to give Obama the credit for a plan drawn up, negotiated, and ratified under the Bush admin is not only wrong, its an outright lie.


has anyone done that? I certainly have not.

1. Bush didn't have anything to do with moving the situation in Iraq forward.
2. Obama hasn't been given credit for something neither of them was the author of.

0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 28 Aug, 2012 06:32 am
@McGentrix,
Time for you to look at the history again eh. Not the propaganda from any American side.
McGentrix
 
  0  
Tue 28 Aug, 2012 06:37 am
@ehBeth,
How about sharing with us how you see it going down?

Enough of the vagueries.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 28 Aug, 2012 06:55 am
@revelette,
@McG

revelette wrote:

Actually that plan was forced on the Bush administration from the Iraqis and Obama merely carried it out because really he had no choice.

Pact, Approved in Iraq, Sets Time for U.S. Pullout



Mr. Bush didn't want it.
Mr. Obama didn't want it.

Iraq wanted it.

I think neither Mr. Bush nor Mr. Obama deserve any credit re anything to do with Iraq. Both were very disappointing.
McGentrix
 
  1  
Tue 28 Aug, 2012 07:15 am
At the risk of making "my side" look like a bunch of dolts, here is Stewart on this particular situation...

Jon Stewart Mocks GOP Over Blaming Obama For Bush’s Iraq Withdrawal Agreement
ehBeth
 
  1  
Tue 28 Aug, 2012 07:23 am
@McGentrix,
I think they're all dolts when it comes to Iraq.
plainoldme
 
  2  
Thu 13 Sep, 2012 06:47 am
What a romney will will mean: The complete marginalization and denigration of the American worker.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 13 Sep, 2012 07:44 am
@ehBeth,
I agree.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Thu 13 Sep, 2012 08:25 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I think they're all dolts when it comes to Iraq.


That's a good example of Toyfort syndrome which I must say is a very common affliction.

It's a state of mind which likes to imagine, in the service of self-respect, that a situation like Iraq is something quite like those military style toy forts with plastic soldiers which can be moved about with great ease.

The actual situation is more like tumbling down a revolving chute in the dark mixed up with a dumpster load of trash whilst trying to look good and dreading the phone ringing and hoping there's a reasonably soft landing when eventually emerging into the light at the bottom.

Only a dolt would allow himself to get into such a position never mind beg and humiliate himself pleading for it.

So dolts are all you have Beth unless you know a way of getting the undolts to shape up.

In order to get into the positions which you claim are filled by dolts, assuming you're absolving the poor bloody infantry, it is generally necessary to have had the ambition and concomitant drive for a very long time. Mr Obama had the ambition to be President as a young man. So do many more.

Obviously the positions are such that some general idea of what is going on and how best to do things is required but at the age when the driving ambition first germinates it is obviously the case that no such expertise is possible and only a dolt would think it is. Or that being saluted thousands of times by big cheeses with rows of medals on their chests, signing your name half the time and sitting yourself on the coconut shy, is a proper way for a gentleman to pass his time in his one and only journey through this veil of tears and weary world of woe.

What would you have done differently?







0 Replies
 
plainoldme
 
  1  
Fri 5 Oct, 2012 11:46 am
Romney bragged during his gubernatorial race that he took a job as a night watchman while at Stanford in order to fly home to Michigan and his then underage girlfriend, now his wife, and that neither set of parents knew it.

Cheating on his parents. Making fools of his parents after they were dead. Flying home to play slap and tickle with his girlfriend who was jail bait. Sounds like a real family values kinda guy.

While I doubt that he could have done that without his parents knowing, chiefly because in suburban Oakland County (I'm from MI), he would have needed the use of a car, no matter what, willard did not tell the truth . . . either about the every weekend trips or about having done any of those things.

Finally, if he did do what he said, then he probably was asked by Stanford not to come back just as SMith college asked Barbara Pierce Bush not to come back.

So, did he become a Mormon missionary in France just to avoid the Vietnam era draft or did he go because he flunked out of Stanford?

Inquiring minds want to know.
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Fri 5 Oct, 2012 12:27 pm
@plainoldme,
the easy answer is both because if being asked to leave college he lost his deferment... do the math
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Fri 5 Oct, 2012 03:04 pm
@plainoldme,
Quote:
Romney bragged during his gubernatorial race that he took a job as a night watchman while at Stanford in order to fly home to Michigan and his then underage girlfriend, now his wife, and that neither set of parents knew it.

Cheating on his parents. Making fools of his parents after they were dead. Flying home to play slap and tickle with his girlfriend who was jail bait. Sounds like a real family values kinda guy.


Well--assuming that story is true it is very romantic. And marrying the girl and still being married and having fulfilled the promises he made to the extent he has is really romantic. To go to all that trouble to be at the side of the girl he loved is the very essence of romance. Only a dirty mind would presume it went further than that without any evidence.

The neurotics, the puritans, the envious and the Goebbelian propagandists can say what they like but it represents a fair degree of unconditional love bearing in mind all the temptations in liberal Stanford.

And bugger parents. That's super romantic. Romeo and Juliet ****.

No wonder he bragged about it. He must be up 10 points in the polls from that alone.

Notice how both candidates have congratulated each other on being good family men.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 5 Oct, 2012 03:22 pm
@spendius,
You wrote,
Quote:
No wonder he bragged about it. He must be up 10 points in the polls from that alone.


How do you know he's telling the truth? He's lied about almost everything else.

So, when does Romney tell the truth, and when does he lie?

 

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