Obama '08?

@mysteryman,

Well, that doesn't forgive the initial action for war against Iraq. Two wrongs doesn't make it right. Our country killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi for this illegal war, many of our soldiers killed or wounded, and spent billions unnecessarily.

He drew up the case for that war; it was contingent upon Obama to end as president. Even then Obama expanded the war in Afghanistan which I disagreed with.

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@mysteryman,

The USA troops in Afghanistan are part of the NATO/ISAF force. (And the USA are a NATO member)

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

The Iraq war ended under a plan that Bush drew up, even though Obama was president. Obama could have ended the war n Afghanistan any time he wanted to, just by ordering US troops out and leaving it all up to NATO.
Why hasn't he?

Because the US is part of NATO.

Oh.. we are all in this together but you guys take care of it while we go relax. How silly of an argument do you really want to make MM?

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@cicerone imposter,

Don't forget however, that the war in Iraq ended under the auspices of a plan Bush drew up and agreed to.

The war being illegal or not is something we have hashed over time and time again, with us simply agreeing to disagree.

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@parados,

And NATO is commanded by a US Navy admiral.
If Obama really wanted to end the war in Afghanistan, he could.

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@mysteryman,

The last time I checked Obama isn't President of NATO.

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If you voted for Obama in 2008 because you thought he was going to change politics in America and reduce the level of partisan animus, and you now are excusing his Chicago brand of slash and burn campaigning because "It's about time the Democrats gave Republicans a taste of their own medicine," then you need to stop patting yourself on your back for the high mindedness you think you exemplified in 2008, and accept that you are as partisan a creature as any you criticize on the right.

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Obama tried. He was met with unremitting hostility and total stonewalling. Every time he reached out a hand, someone on the right bit it. The individual mandate, for example, was based on an idea originated by the uber-right Heritage Foundation, but still was met with unrelenting attack. It's a bit disingenuous now to accuse him of animus. The right has been nothing but animus personified for the last four years.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

Don't forget however, that the war in Iraq ended under the auspices of a plan Bush drew up and agreed to.

The war being illegal or not is something we have hashed over time and time again, with us simply agreeing to disagree.

Hard to believe anyone thinks Bush deserves credit for planning to end the unfunded, preemptive stupid war with Iraq he started.

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@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

And NATO is commanded by a US Navy admiral.

No. Admiral James Stavridis is one of the two strategic commanders for NATO, as SACEUR (Supreme Allied Commander Europe). [French Air Force General Jean-Paul Paloméros commands Allied Command Transformation (ACT).]

mysteryman wrote:

If Obama really wanted to end the war in Afghanistan, he could.

All the other 27 heads of state had to agree.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Interesting outlook, Finn, considering that, according to their own words, the GOP opposition to Obama began on Day One of his presidency in order that "He not be able to claim a single bipartisan success." Time Magazine, Mitch McConnell, August 24, 2012 issue.

Chicago style, pphhhhffftt, pikers to the likes of Cantor and Grover Norquist.

Tell us again what are the compromises put forth by the GOP that they then did not renege on as the negotiations on any subject went on??

Joe(they are the American Taliban)Nation

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@snood,

mm can't see the forest for the trees; Bush started that illegal war, and now wants to give him credit for stopping it. DUH! Dumb and Dumber comes to mind.

Another issue that mm seems to miss is that a retired president does not command any of the military; the CIC is the active president. Past presidents don't have any control.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Don't forget however, that the war in Iraq ended under the auspices of a plan Bush drew up and agreed to.

The war being illegal or not is something we have hashed over time and time again, with us simply agreeing to disagree.

Hard to believe anyone thinks Bush deserves credit for planning to end the unfunded, preemptive stupid war with Iraq he started.

Seriously? Obama followed Bush's drawdown plan almost to a T. Same time frame and everything. How could you not know this?

1 Reply

@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

snood wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Don't forget however, that the war in Iraq ended under the auspices of a plan Bush drew up and agreed to.

The war being illegal or not is something we have hashed over time and time again, with us simply agreeing to disagree.

Hard to believe anyone thinks Bush deserves credit for planning to end the unfunded, preemptive stupid war with Iraq he started.

Seriously? Obama followed Bush's drawdown plan almost to a T. Same time frame and everything. How could you not know this?

You missed my point (no suprise to me). It isn't that I'm disputing it was bush's withdrawal plan. It's the fact that it was Bush's fault we were there in the unnecessary war of choice in the first place, so I don't see why he needs a slap on the back for planning to get us out.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

I don't see why he needs a slap on the back for planning to get us out.

Wait, he had a plan to get us out?

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@snood,

snood wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

snood wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Don't forget however, that the war in Iraq ended under the auspices of a plan Bush drew up and agreed to.

The war being illegal or not is something we have hashed over time and time again, with us simply agreeing to disagree.

Hard to believe anyone thinks Bush deserves credit for planning to end the unfunded, preemptive stupid war with Iraq he started.

Seriously? Obama followed Bush's drawdown plan almost to a T. Same time frame and everything. How could you not know this?

You missed my point (no suprise to me). It isn't that I'm disputing it was bush's withdrawal plan. It's the fact that it was Bush's fault we were there in the unnecessary war of choice in the first place, so I don't see why he needs a slap on the back for planning to get us out.

I missed your point? Was there some subtlety in your post I missed?

No one is challenging the fact that we went to war with Iraq during Bush's Presidency nor the fact that it was pushed from the administration. Just like no one should be challenging the fact that the same Bush administration had planned to get us out and that went through as planned.

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@McGentrix,

Actually that plan was forced on the Bush administration from the Iraqis and Obama merely carried it out because really he had no choice.

Pact, Approved in Iraq, Sets Time for U.S. Pullout

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@revelette,

McG can't see he's lost in his own bull ****. In the first place, Iraq demanded that US troops be pulled out; it was not Bush's original plan.

Quote:

BAGHDAD — Iraq’s cabinet on Sunday overwhelmingly approved a proposed security agreement that calls for a full withdrawal of American forces from the country by the end of 2011. The cabinet’s decision brings a final date for the departure of American troops a significant step closer after more than five and a half years of war.

In the second place, it wasn't Bush's decision after he left office of how the US military will withdraw its troops. He had no power as a civilian.

Conclusion; as president, Bush had no choice but to agree with the Iraqi government's pullout demands. After Bush became a civilian, he had no say on anything that has to do with governance of the US military.

The only "credit" GW Bush deserves is lying to start the war in Iraq.

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

no one should be challenging the fact that the same Bush administration had planned to get us out and that went through as planned.

really?

1 Reply

@mysteryman,

mysteryman wrote:

the war in Iraq ended under the auspices of a plan Bush drew up

who told you that?

2 Replies

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